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Subject: An unsatisfying real-time experience rss

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Mike Kozlowski
United States
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Michigan
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I, uh, guess I had a lot of geekgold?
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So this is a tile-placement game, where you draw tiles from a bag and place them inside of an enclosed square boardspace, with the rule that they have to touch two edges (and match the terrain on each edge), such that terrain evolves from the edges toward the center.

As you place them, you can place a little dude on one of the terrains on the just-placed tile, and whoever has majority control in that terrain ends up owning it, like Carcassone farms. Cities are special round tiles that can be placed anywhere, and give you a good wodge of bonus points... if you can hold them until the end, because if someone finds a tile that can replace the city, they can destroy it and get bonus points for doing so. There are terrain combinations such that it's guaranteed safe to place a city in some places (for instance, no tile has all four terrains, so a hole that's bordered with all terrains will be non-destroyable for a city placed there), so setting that up and dropping a city there is one of the things you're trying to do.

So far, so good. Here's the problem: It's real-time. I kind of dislike real-time games in the first place, but real time WITH A TILE DRAW BAG is just intolerable. Trying to grab a tile from a bag that someone else has while they're busy is super super annoying. I actually just grabbed a handful of tiles early on so I could stop fussing with it, but it turns out this is against the rules for good reasons relating to how you have to deal with unplaced tiles. Also annoying in real-time is looking at the unplaced tiles, because other people are flipping them over to see the other side (they're two-sided) constantly, and it's all just frustrating and overwhelming enough that it made me want to sit back and just wait until it was over.

If you like real-time games a lot, this is probably worth a look-see. I have no interest in ever playing it again.
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Wouter B
Netherlands
Amsterdam
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I guess it would be nice to have some sort of bowl where the top is closed (you grab from the sides), instead of a bag you pass around.

I really like Ligretto, so I think I might like it.
 
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Chris Boelinger
France
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For the little story :
In the very first design, first prototype, there was a big meeple shaped like a bag. The rule was : If somebody was holding the bag, you could grab this meeple to show priority as soon as the person drawing tiles would be over.
In the first 10 playtest or so, this meeple bag has been taken... zero time by zero player !!!!!

Just to say that the problem you are apparently mentioning was my very first concern, and in fact it was a invalid concern. Why ? Because it's a real time game, and because you constantly need your two hands (it's better and faster) there is no reason for you to hold onto the bag keeping one or two hands busy ! So in every single game I saw, when players are done drawing, which they do super fast of course, then they get rid of the bag as fast as possible as well. Any other player can grab it as fast if they want.
Honestly, if I have been waiting for the bag more than 1 or 2 seconds in any game I've played or seen played, it's truly the maximum.
So... what happened in your game... one player was doing some anti playing attitude and keeping the bag non-stop ? Well, if so, you just tell him to release the bag when he is done. Or you simply take it from his hands when he is done.

And if you don't really like the fast real-time playing you can always try the turn by turn variant which is less crazy.
Not that I'm trying to have you go back to it, or give it a second chance... I know you probably won't, but just saying that for other players who might have issues like yours

Thanks for your comment and POV anyway.
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