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Yep. That's part of a quote. The guy who said it actually said - "political correctness is a war on noticing."

I tend to agree and that's probably the thing about the PC police that is the most annoying, not to mention dangerous. Potentially anyway. So since there were some really good responses and varying views on the thread I started the other day about multiculturalism I thought I'd give this a go. I'll begin here:

If you're fat and unhealthy and also stink I'm probably going to notice. I may have this thought - "Pee---Yoo! That fat guy smells like an ass and BO sandwich and looks like he might just wheeze to death in front of me." I might move a more comfortable distance away or change seats, or react in some way after noticing the guy. I don't think in words and phrases though, us folks with lighting sharp minds don't like to slow our hi-test brains down with words, we do full concepts that appear and disappear magically. But if I was to put my thought into words, those would perhaps be the words.

In short - I notice a fat, stinky unhealthy person and if it is offensive to me I am free to take an action to avoid it. The PC undercurrent is that thinking one thing is not actionable, but the instant you add words or even actions, boom! You're a criminal, a bigot and a heartless hate-filled conservative. You may claim that isn't so, that mere words don't create a klaxon call for the PC police, but you're wrong and you know it. The only guy in RSP who maybe doesn't know it is that guy on my cultural thread who felt it was my job to provide him with the tools, questions, answers and knowledge of the current world because apparently he is unable to do it himself.

Next example - I see a tart young female human who is dressed exactly in the way that is most appealing to me, specifically with a perfect little ass, slim hips, flat stomach and pert breasts. Before anyone accuses me of being a mouth-breathing pervert, I married a few exactly like that, exactly, and I have pics to prove it. So go fuck yourself, losers. Now let us imagine I see such a beauty - if I was to put words to my thoughts they would be a bit X-rated even for RSP, suffice it to say there might be a table and some hair pulling involved and clothes not completely off, but enticingly part way removed. So I noticed her, which, by the way, is what she wanted. Maybe not for me specifically to notice her, but to be noticed and approved of in general. If women didn't care what men thought they'd all look exactly the way they look the day after you and your bride come back from the Honeymoon - baggy sweats, fuzzy slippers (dirty ones) loose shirt her previous boyfriend gave her, hair up in a chaotic bun-thing held by a clip used to keep the Frito bag closed and Oil of Olay spread across her checks.

Any actual comment though, which is putting the act of noticing into words, and suddenly I'm a criminal and perhaps can only be cured by a judge sentencing me to be tied to a chair and forced to watch no less than a dozen Slut Walk events across North America. All with my eyes clamped open Clockwork Orange style.

Final example - You're walking along an urban street just as it is beginning to get dark and although the neighborhood isn't exactly bad, it borders several rough parts of the city. Ahead you see three black youths (or brown ones, pick your color of choice here, even white if you're black or brown) lounging along a wall ahead, wearing hoodies and just in general moving about and acting tough. You might think "I'm fucked, those black savages (or brown cholo's, or white crackers) are going to rob me, stab me and then pee on me and run away laughing maniacally with my Rolex." This is probably the toughest of all three because the fat guy isn't going to hit you, the sweet young thing is assuredly not going to fuck you, but these guys *look* exactly like they are going to mess you up and rob you.

The PC police wrt to the fat guy prohibit you from discriminating against him specifically with words or perhaps with job applications or rental agreements. The sexy young lady cannot be looked at, ever, and uttering any words of admiration is practically a capital offense. The thugs on the street brings the war on noticing into direct contact with your life and possessions. If you ignore the clear indications of threat -- which is part of what is excellent about the act of noticing, it can and usually does save your life and generally make it better -- and just barge on ahead, you're a fucking moron. Hands down, you win the trophy. But if you turn around or change to the other side of the street you're the KKK, the local black hatin' confederate sympathizing hillbilly.

So when I first read the quote I started with, it rang true. I'm a noticer and a person who vocalizes about what I notice. I used to go to the mall with my daughter specifically to sit on a bench with her, coffee or ice cream in hand, and do a running commentary, a mean-spirited one, about all the fatty's and uglies and Mohawked, tattooed, idiotic, yammering fools that pass down the aisles of any mall in America on a daily basis. She would laugh very hard and feel kind of ashamed for finding it hilarious. We talked about it at length and I asked her if she thought anyone was noticing her when she and I walked the mall. Or noticing me. And were we so perfect looking and cool that the people we were laughing at could not possibly be laughing at us? Nope, we're all the butt of someone's joke when they notice us.

She got it. People notice other people, and they judge. Always. Because judging or assessing or weighing or recalling when you do notice other people is a deep-rooted and critical survival trait. If you don't notice you could die or cause others to die. "Oh, but noticing a nice ass and casting an eye that way which lingers a second too long isn't a survival trait!" Bullshit. It most certainly is and I have the children to prove it. All noticing is important but not all noticing demands action. I don't tell morbidly obese people they're disgusting, but to me they are. It's not like they got fat to make me feel bad and it's not like I'm going to wrinkle my nose and sneer every time they enter the room to make them aware I'm judging. That's not the point, the point is that a person who notices and assesses or judges other people, their actions, their, dress and assorted obvious traits is better equipped to predict what the person might do and if that signals a threat.

But the PC mindset wants you to consider yourself flawed for reacting negatively to things about other people that are clearly negative. Thus we have the war on noticing.

There was a story about a rowing team, at Yale I think, that was suspended for having a spreadsheet that essentially was a commentary on the sexually attractive (or not?) aspects of the female rowing team. This troubles me, not the spreadsheet because what the fuck do you think college aged athletes think about when they are not athleting? Sex, Duh. The troubling thing is that noticing and commenting appears to now be considered like a crime, minor for sure, but slippery slope. Other than in Thailand I mean because we all know one mean FaceBook post about the king and it's lights out Paco.

So what do you think?

* Is it bigoted to notice?

* Is it bigoted to act on or comment in private about what you noticed?

* Should school children; like college students: be taught to suppress their innate ability to notice differences in the people who inhabit the planet with them?

I'm good with not insulting people. But I was always good with that, except in RSP. I'm not good with being branded a bigot or otherwise punished (like the Yale students) for enjoying what I noticed, commenting on it or acting because of it. Comments? Yes? No?
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The biggest difference is that if you're white, and male, nobody notices you. People don't assume you're a "thug" when they see you. People don't stare at your ass as you walk by. People are less likely to care if you're dressed sloppily or are overweight.

If you're a man holding hands with a woman on the street (as opposed to a man), no one will notice or care (though they may make note of her physical appearance and judge you for it).

If you're driving and do something careless on the road, or make a mistake, people don't make generalizations based on your race or gender: who has ever looked over at a bad driver and thought, "ugh, Caucasians!"?

It must be nice to live life so invisibly. You don't know how easy you have it.

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cbazler wrote:
The biggest difference is that if you're white, and male, nobody notices you. People don't assume you're a "thug" when they see you. People don't stare at your ass as you walk by. People are less likely to care if you're dressed sloppily or are overweight.

If you're a man holding hands with a woman on the street (as opposed to a man), no one will notice or care (though they may make note of her physical appearance and judge you for it).

If you're driving and do something careless on the road, or make a mistake, people don't make generalizations based on your race or gender: who has ever looked over at a bad driver and thought, "ugh, Caucasians!"?

It must be nice to live life so invisibly. You don't know how easy you have it.



By definition a screed is boring, tedious and is little more than clumsy repetition of vacuous proselytizing. Your comments, as is usually the case here, are a screed. How about responding to the subject rather than continuing in your endless war on people not acknowledging or caring how oppressed you imagine yourself to be?
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DWTripp wrote:
By definition a screed is boring, tedious and is little more than clumsy repetition of vacuous proselytizing. Your comments, as is usually the case here, are a screed. How about responding to the subject rather than continuing in your endless war on people not acknowledging or caring how oppressed you imagine yourself to be?


Huh? My comments are absolutely relevant, because what you are calling "noticing" is actually stereotyping: judging and profiling based on race and gender. But since by your own account you are looking for "differences," and in our culture white men are widely considered the norm, any differences you (and many people) notice are in non-white, non-straight, non-male people.

That's why there are virtually no stereotypes about white men. How many "straight guy" jokes do you know? If you see a white man rob a store, or litter, or jaywalk, do you project his behavior onto every member of his race, and then "notice" that all white men do those things?

The answer is no. All of your questions are biased, because they come from a position of privilege.

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DWTripp wrote:
Next example - I see a tart young female human who is dressed exactly in the way that is most appealing to me, specifically with a perfect little ass, slim hips, flat stomach and pert breasts. Before anyone accuses me of being a mouth-breathing pervert, I married a few exactly like that, exactly, and I have pics to prove it. So go fuck yourself, losers. Now let us imagine I see such a beauty - if I was to put words to my thoughts they would be a bit X-rated even for RSP, suffice it to say there might be a table and some hair pulling involved and clothes not completely off, but enticingly part way removed. So I noticed her, which, by the way, is what she wanted. Maybe not for me specifically to notice her, but to be noticed and approved of in general. If women didn't care what men thought they'd all look exactly the way they look the day after you and your bride come back from the Honeymoon - baggy sweats, fuzzy slippers (dirty ones) loose shirt her previous boyfriend gave her, hair up in a chaotic bun-thing held by a clip used to keep the Frito bag closed and Oil of Olay spread across her checks.

sorry to break this to you but "tart young female humans" do not dress up to get noticed by you specifically - rather their appearance in your gaze (and x-rated thoughts) is completely unintentional
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DWTripp wrote:
How about responding to the subject rather than continuing in your endless war on people not acknowledging or caring how oppressed you imagine yourself to be?

Yeah come on. Respond to the topic, which is how oppressed Tripp is.
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DWTripp wrote:


There was a story about a rowing team, at Yale I think, that was suspended for having a spreadsheet that essentially was a commentary on the sexually attractive (or not?) aspects of the female rowing team. This troubles me, not the spreadsheet because what the fuck do you think college aged athletes think about when they are not athleting? Sex, Duh. The troubling thing is that noticing and commenting appears to now be considered like a crime, minor for sure, but slippery slope. Other than in Thailand I mean because we all know one mean FaceBook post about the king and it's lights out Paco.




Is this the incident you are referring to? Its Harvard and the soccer team but it does seem to fit your description

Quote:
They rated the women on a sexual appeal scale of 1 to 10, including explicit descriptions of their physical traits and musings about the women’s preferred sexual positions.

“Doggy style,” they said of one. “The Triple Lindy” of another. Of another whom they perceived as “manly,” they wrote: “Not much needs to be said on this one, folks.”

This was not a presidential candidate caught in an unguarded moment. This was the men’s soccer team at Harvard, one of the most prestigious and privileged universities in the world, writing about counterparts on the women’s soccer team.

The Harvard Crimson, the student newspaper, last week revealed the existence of the so-called scouting report, written in 2012, which had been in a Google document and was publicly searchable until recently.

On Thursday, after an investigation, the university said similar exchanges had continued into this year. It canceled the rest of the season for the men’s team — two games — and said the team, which was in striking distance of winning its conference and a spot in the N.C.A.A. tournament, must forfeit any postseason play. On Friday afternoon, the team apologized in a letter published on The Crimson’s website.


http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/05/us/harvard-mens-soccer-tea...

Are these guys victims of your "war on noticing" then? Just wanted to double check



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"This was not a presidential candidate caught in an unguarded moment. This was the men’s soccer team at Harvard, one of the most prestigious and privileged universities in the world, writing about counterparts on the women’s soccer team."

Amateur soccer team being held to higher standards than Pres-Cand (now Pres-Elect) Trump.


It's meant to be in green!


Remember back when the greening of America was about reducing environmental damage?
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You could think of it as favoring noticing other things, too. I notice, in your description of sitting in the mall, that you referred to nothing about their mental states. Did they seem anxious? Focused? Loving? What did they look at? What made them pause? What can you tell about what they want?

To develop an interest in a whole person, rather than their usefulness to you or their group membership--that strikes me as the ideal. It might not seem to you possible to characterize PC ideology in a positive way, because it's so consistently used as a mere negative, but I think that's how I'd do it. When you treat people as mere means or overwhelm their individuality with a single fact about them you are likely to treat people badly, in a way which is bad for society as a whole. Think about your descriptions--a lot of what you describe noticing is how they affect you. Some are stinky, others make you want sex, others may hurt you.

None of that's bad, really. But if you find you only notice superficial things about people if they aren't white guys, while doing a little more of the work of trying to attribute minds to people who are white guys, that would be a problem, wouldn't it? What PC is about is not using stereotypes or instrumental thinking to avoid noticing things about people or to avoid putting yourself in a position to notice things about people who aren't like you in some superficial way.

Thinking about it this way makes it easier, I think, to notice some of the ways many of the left fall short of their ideals.
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Pinook wrote:
Amateur soccer team being held to higher standards than Pres-Cand (now Pres-Elect) Trump.


I am fine with this.
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cbazler wrote:
DWTripp wrote:
By definition a screed is boring, tedious and is little more than clumsy repetition of vacuous proselytizing. Your comments, as is usually the case here, are a screed. How about responding to the subject rather than continuing in your endless war on people not acknowledging or caring how oppressed you imagine yourself to be?


Huh? My comments are absolutely relevant, because what you are calling "noticing" is actually stereotyping: judging and profiling based on race and gender. But since by your own account you are looking for "differences," and in our culture white men are widely considered the norm, any differences you (and many people) notice are in non-white, non-straight, non-male people.

That's why there are virtually no stereotypes about white men. How many "straight guy" jokes do you know? If you see a white man rob a store, or litter, or jaywalk, do you project his behavior onto every member of his race, and then "notice" that all white men do those things?

The answer is no. All of your questions are biased, because they come from a position of privilege.



As a straight white guy, my dancing and fashion sense are both subject to ridicule. Rightly so, I may add.

But the difference between noticing and stereotyping is vast. I notice someone who is overweight. I will make assumptions about things like their activity level and perhaps even their self-esteem about how they let themselves go so far. But when I talk with that person, do I let those assumptions dictate how I interact with them? Or do I leave myself open to being proven wrong about my assumptions? Therein lay the difference.

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GameCrossing wrote:
cbazler wrote:
DWTripp wrote:
By definition a screed is boring, tedious and is little more than clumsy repetition of vacuous proselytizing. Your comments, as is usually the case here, are a screed. How about responding to the subject rather than continuing in your endless war on people not acknowledging or caring how oppressed you imagine yourself to be?


Huh? My comments are absolutely relevant, because what you are calling "noticing" is actually stereotyping: judging and profiling based on race and gender. But since by your own account you are looking for "differences," and in our culture white men are widely considered the norm, any differences you (and many people) notice are in non-white, non-straight, non-male people.

That's why there are virtually no stereotypes about white men. How many "straight guy" jokes do you know? If you see a white man rob a store, or litter, or jaywalk, do you project his behavior onto every member of his race, and then "notice" that all white men do those things?

The answer is no. All of your questions are biased, because they come from a position of privilege.



As a straight white guy, my dancing and fashion sense are both subject to ridicule. Rightly so, I may add.

But the difference between noticing and stereotyping is vast. I notice someone who is overweight. I will make assumptions about things like their activity level and perhaps even their self-esteem about how they let themselves go so far. But when I talk with that person, do I let those assumptions dictate how I interact with them? Or do I leave myself open to being proven wrong about my assumptions? Therein lay the difference.



You understand. Bazler doesn't. But Bazler has one subject of interest- the imagined vast wave of overwhelming bigotry against gays, non-whites and whomever else stands up and claims victimhood. People haven't laughed at gay men for a couple decades, longer in many locales, but that doesn't suit Bazler's agenda so he imagines he lives in a world surrounded by bigots who want to harm him somehow. In America, middle class or higher, college educated, equipped with health care, good hygiene, infrastructure and massive collection of laws, organizations and services dedicated 100% to making his life sweet, and he can think of nothing except claiming the moral high ground of oppression. We're all in the 1% of the planet, even the lower classes. We live lives of ease, safety and comfort when contrasted against the desperate human suffering and true oppression that is constant for billions. But Bazler and his ilk want to own all of it - they want to retain their 1% membership status while simultaneously claiming they are oppressed and therefor will always have the moral high ground.
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rinelk wrote:
You could think of it as favoring noticing other things, too. I notice, in your description of sitting in the mall, that you referred to nothing about their mental states. Did they seem anxious? Focused? Loving? What did they look at? What made them pause? What can you tell about what they want?

To develop an interest in a whole person, rather than their usefulness to you or their group membership--that strikes me as the ideal. It might not seem to you possible to characterize PC ideology in a positive way, because it's so consistently used as a mere negative, but I think that's how I'd do it. When you treat people as mere means or overwhelm their individuality with a single fact about them you are likely to treat people badly, in a way which is bad for society as a whole. Think about your descriptions--a lot of what you describe noticing is how they affect you. Some are stinky, others make you want sex, others may hurt you.

None of that's bad, really. But if you find you only notice superficial things about people if they aren't white guys, while doing a little more of the work of trying to attribute minds to people who are white guys, that would be a problem, wouldn't it? What PC is about is not using stereotypes or instrumental thinking to avoid noticing things about people or to avoid putting yourself in a position to notice things about people who aren't like you in some superficial way.

Thinking about it this way makes it easier, I think, to notice some of the ways many of the left fall short of their ideals.


Again with the recursive and heavily internalized fretting over things that don't matter. Seriously Kelsey? Their mental state? My mall activity was to make fun of people without them knowing I was making fun of them. What appears to be moving is the PC notion that thinking something -- even if the so-called target is never aware they have been made fun of -- is somehow wrong and must be curtailed. At least we agree there is nothing bad, or needing correction, in judging people silently.

Why does anyone have to have more then a superficial impression of people that are not and will never be in their lives? Let's take the nice looking young lady - does it matter that I might have lewd thoughts, or excessively admiring thoughts about her? And what if you and I were watching her pass by and I said, to you quietly, "Man, what a nice ass" as she strode away? Is she damaged? Am I sexist? Is there something inherently wrong with that? I say no, the impression I get from reading and watching people interviewed on all sides of the subject of PC or "noticing things about people" is that there is a subtle but forceful push to attempt to *guilt* people for what they think or laugh about or are critical of.

As for the positive side of PC *ideology*, it has none. If you were raised, like me, to have basic good manners in public, to say yes sir and no ma'am, to open doors and in general be helpful, what does it matter what you really think? If you have opened a door for a foul smelling social reject who was struggling because he/she had an armful pf packages that's not PC or non-PC, it's manners and shows basic civility. I guess what I see is there is no harm done by a rowing or swim team judging females on sexual merits. If I found the spreadsheet and was the coach I'd throw it away and tell the team to back the fuck off and that they can continue being "dudes" but try and not be stupid dudes. But somehow (I don't know particulars) the joke was found and whoever found it decided to make it public. I contend that the harm was done by whatever person decided to go public, not by the guys being guys.

So do I damage a fat person by noticing they are fat and disapproving of what it brings into my space? If I joke about it with a friend but the person has long since disappeared forever from my personal space and awarteness, have I damaged them?

If a good dancer saw McSpiffy dance and ridiculed his klutzy nature to his dance partner has he harmed McSpiffy?
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All PC is supposed to be is a way of treating others with basic respect such as not using language which is obviously insulting or demeaning to the other person. When therefore PC is reasonably doing just that, I'm all for it. Yet as much as the anti-PC nuts go too far in their objections, the radical advocates of PC do also go too far. People need to take into account context but they also need to use plain down to earth common sense.

Most of what actual reasonable PC says to do is stuff I learned to do as a child or at least a teenager in order not to be rude. "[Person X] doesn't like being called a [term 1]. Could you not use [term 1] at least when [Person X] is about?"
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If your noticing is all private and internal, then it would follow that no one else would know about it. Thus, there would be no way for you to run afoul of PC, reasonable or unreasonable.

So it must be that you are applying your noticing externally, which in turn can be noticed. And thus what you perceive to be PC is in fact people noticing you noticing, judging you, and you finding that shitty.
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DWTripp wrote:
Is it bigoted to notice?
Nope.

DWTripp wrote:
Is it bigoted to act on or comment in private about what you noticed?
Depends on whether or not you are exhibiting bigotry by doing so.

DWTripp wrote:
Should school children; like college students: be taught to suppress their innate ability to notice differences in the people who inhabit the planet with them?
No, because that would be foolish. They should, however, be informed of the potential folly of relying overly on surface impressions. Don't judge a book by its cover, and all that.


Your previous post was far more insightful, Tripp. Mainly because you were asking questions for which you didn't think you already had the answers.
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DWTripp wrote:
You understand. Bazler doesn't. But Bazler has one subject of interest- the imagined vast wave of overwhelming bigotry against gays, non-whites and whomever else stands up and claims victimhood. People haven't laughed at gay men for a couple decades, longer in many locales, but that doesn't suit Bazler's agenda so he imagines he lives in a world surrounded by bigots who want to harm him somehow. In America, middle class or higher, college educated, equipped with health care, good hygiene, infrastructure and massive collection of laws, organizations and services dedicated 100% to making his life sweet, and he can think of nothing except claiming the moral high ground of oppression. We're all in the 1% of the planet, even the lower classes. We live lives of ease, safety and comfort when contrasted against the desperate human suffering and true oppression that is constant for billions. But Bazler and his ilk want to own all of it - they want to retain their 1% membership status while simultaneously claiming they are oppressed and therefor will always have the moral high ground.


I am not talking about myself here, Tripp. When people see me walking down the street, they have no idea I am gay. I very rarely face any kind of victimization for it, even though I have in the past. But I can empathize with people who do face discrimination. You obviously cannot.

What you're asking for is permission to be prejudiced, and to act on your prejudice. As someone who never faces prejudice himself, it's an incredibly selfish and unfair request. That's all I'm saying.

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There is a difference between "noticing" an obese person and sitting on a bench in a mall next to your daughter making mean spirited comments or observations about that person for your daughter to laugh at. The fact that you seem to lack the self awareness that that is the case is the saddest part of your commentary.
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DWTripp wrote:
GameCrossing wrote:
cbazler wrote:
DWTripp wrote:
By definition a screed is boring, tedious and is little more than clumsy repetition of vacuous proselytizing. Your comments, as is usually the case here, are a screed. How about responding to the subject rather than continuing in your endless war on people not acknowledging or caring how oppressed you imagine yourself to be?


Huh? My comments are absolutely relevant, because what you are calling "noticing" is actually stereotyping: judging and profiling based on race and gender. But since by your own account you are looking for "differences," and in our culture white men are widely considered the norm, any differences you (and many people) notice are in non-white, non-straight, non-male people.

That's why there are virtually no stereotypes about white men. How many "straight guy" jokes do you know? If you see a white man rob a store, or litter, or jaywalk, do you project his behavior onto every member of his race, and then "notice" that all white men do those things?

The answer is no. All of your questions are biased, because they come from a position of privilege.



As a straight white guy, my dancing and fashion sense are both subject to ridicule. Rightly so, I may add.

But the difference between noticing and stereotyping is vast. I notice someone who is overweight. I will make assumptions about things like their activity level and perhaps even their self-esteem about how they let themselves go so far. But when I talk with that person, do I let those assumptions dictate how I interact with them? Or do I leave myself open to being proven wrong about my assumptions? Therein lay the difference.



You understand. Bazler doesn't. But Bazler has one subject of interest- the imagined vast wave of overwhelming bigotry against gays, non-whites and whomever else stands up and claims victimhood. People haven't laughed at gay men for a couple decades, longer in many locales, but that doesn't suit Bazler's agenda so he imagines he lives in a world surrounded by bigots who want to harm him somehow. In America, middle class or higher, college educated, equipped with health care, good hygiene, infrastructure and massive collection of laws, organizations and services dedicated 100% to making his life sweet, and he can think of nothing except claiming the moral high ground of oppression. We're all in the 1% of the planet, even the lower classes. We live lives of ease, safety and comfort when contrasted against the desperate human suffering and true oppression that is constant for billions. But Bazler and his ilk want to own all of it - they want to retain their 1% membership status while simultaneously claiming they are oppressed and therefor will always have the moral high ground.


Right now the Party in power wishes to strip rights from the Gay population, is behind Religious Freedom laws that would legalize discrimination against them, and they favor "conversion therapy" aimed and "curing" their sexual prefernce.

So you might want to dial back on your bigoted ignorance. You seem to have enough of a hill to climb in claiming that college kids getting disciplined for degrading women is a "war" on them somehow
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DWTripp wrote:
GameCrossing wrote:
cbazler wrote:
DWTripp wrote:
By definition a screed is boring, tedious and is little more than clumsy repetition of vacuous proselytizing. Your comments, as is usually the case here, are a screed. How about responding to the subject rather than continuing in your endless war on people not acknowledging or caring how oppressed you imagine yourself to be?


Huh? My comments are absolutely relevant, because what you are calling "noticing" is actually stereotyping: judging and profiling based on race and gender. But since by your own account you are looking for "differences," and in our culture white men are widely considered the norm, any differences you (and many people) notice are in non-white, non-straight, non-male people.

That's why there are virtually no stereotypes about white men. How many "straight guy" jokes do you know? If you see a white man rob a store, or litter, or jaywalk, do you project his behavior onto every member of his race, and then "notice" that all white men do those things?

The answer is no. All of your questions are biased, because they come from a position of privilege.



As a straight white guy, my dancing and fashion sense are both subject to ridicule. Rightly so, I may add.

But the difference between noticing and stereotyping is vast. I notice someone who is overweight. I will make assumptions about things like their activity level and perhaps even their self-esteem about how they let themselves go so far. But when I talk with that person, do I let those assumptions dictate how I interact with them? Or do I leave myself open to being proven wrong about my assumptions? Therein lay the difference.



You understand. Bazler doesn't. But Bazler has one subject of interest- the imagined vast wave of overwhelming bigotry against gays, non-whites and whomever else stands up and claims victimhood. People haven't laughed at gay men for a couple decades, longer in many locales, but that doesn't suit Bazler's agenda so he imagines he lives in a world surrounded by bigots who want to harm him somehow. In America, middle class or higher, college educated, equipped with health care, good hygiene, infrastructure and massive collection of laws, organizations and services dedicated 100% to making his life sweet, and he can think of nothing except claiming the moral high ground of oppression. We're all in the 1% of the planet, even the lower classes. We live lives of ease, safety and comfort when contrasted against the desperate human suffering and true oppression that is constant for billions. But Bazler and his ilk want to own all of it - they want to retain their 1% membership status while simultaneously claiming they are oppressed and therefor will always have the moral high ground.


The thing is... he -is- surrounded by bigots. Perhaps not as many as are projected, but it's real. So I get him and others being defensive about it. But him being defensive and having valid cause for it does not mean that there aren't a LOT of cases where concerns go way too far and cross over into thought policing.
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You know political correctness has gotten out of hand when the President-Elect is calling for the politically incorrect to have their citizenship revoked or to be thrown in jail.
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DWTripp wrote:
Yep. That's part of a quote. The guy who said it actually said - "political correctness is a war on noticing."

But guess what?

That one guy's opinion doesn't override the consensus of opinion as to what constitutes "Political Correctness". Moreover, it's interesting that those who invoke that term also attribute matters of Common Decency as being "Politically Correct" in order to abrogate Common Decency with their unethical prejudices.

So, you'll just have to live with the fact that one person's opinion does NOT represent a consensus -- no matter how much you self-identify and/or agree with his/her opinion.


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cbazler wrote:
DWTripp wrote:
You understand. Bazler doesn't. But Bazler has one subject of interest- the imagined vast wave of overwhelming bigotry against gays, non-whites and whomever else stands up and claims victimhood. People haven't laughed at gay men for a couple decades, longer in many locales, but that doesn't suit Bazler's agenda so he imagines he lives in a world surrounded by bigots who want to harm him somehow. In America, middle class or higher, college educated, equipped with health care, good hygiene, infrastructure and massive collection of laws, organizations and services dedicated 100% to making his life sweet, and he can think of nothing except claiming the moral high ground of oppression. We're all in the 1% of the planet, even the lower classes. We live lives of ease, safety and comfort when contrasted against the desperate human suffering and true oppression that is constant for billions. But Bazler and his ilk want to own all of it - they want to retain their 1% membership status while simultaneously claiming they are oppressed and therefor will always have the moral high ground.


I am not talking about myself here, Tripp. When people see me walking down the street, they have no idea I am gay. I very rarely face any kind of victimization for it, even though I have in the past. But I can empathize with people who do face discrimination. You obviously cannot.

What you're asking for is permission to be prejudiced, and to act on your prejudice. As someone who never faces prejudice himself, it's an incredibly selfish and unfair request. That's all I'm saying.



I call BS. Number one, I'm not only not asking for permission, I don't need or want it. That's an idiotic thing for you (and the guy who posted after you) to say. How the hell would you know if I've ever faced prejudice? Maybe I have and my reaction was to deal with it rather than vomit it out continuously on public forums like this. Everyone is prejudiced and if you think you or anyone living the high life in America has a special card designating them as the most hurt of all then you're even dumber than I already believe you to be.

I asked some pretty simple questions in order to get an understanding if some people saw what I saw about political correctness. Instead of responding you came right out of the gate with your whole "being gay makes me a hurt magnet" dialog and flamed me instead of giving me any response. So go fuck yourself Bazler. Really, you're the worst sort of RSP turd.
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DWTripp wrote:
Comments? Yes? No?


Spot on. And, Gavin McInnes?
 
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single sentences wrote:
DWTripp wrote:
Next example - I see a tart young female human who is dressed exactly in the way that is most appealing to me, specifically with a perfect little ass, slim hips, flat stomach and pert breasts. Before anyone accuses me of being a mouth-breathing pervert, I married a few exactly like that, exactly, and I have pics to prove it. So go fuck yourself, losers. Now let us imagine I see such a beauty - if I was to put words to my thoughts they would be a bit X-rated even for RSP, suffice it to say there might be a table and some hair pulling involved and clothes not completely off, but enticingly part way removed. So I noticed her, which, by the way, is what she wanted. Maybe not for me specifically to notice her, but to be noticed and approved of in general. If women didn't care what men thought they'd all look exactly the way they look the day after you and your bride come back from the Honeymoon - baggy sweats, fuzzy slippers (dirty ones) loose shirt her previous boyfriend gave her, hair up in a chaotic bun-thing held by a clip used to keep the Frito bag closed and Oil of Olay spread across her checks.

sorry to break this to you but "tart young female humans" do not dress up to get noticed by you specifically - rather their appearance in your gaze (and x-rated thoughts) is completely unintentional


Point of clarification...while reading this particular part of DW's treatise on the subject of PC,

"If women didn't care what men thought they'd all look exactly the way they look the day after you and your bride come back from the Honeymoon - baggy sweats, fuzzy slippers (dirty ones) loose shirt her previous boyfriend gave her, hair up in a chaotic bun-thing held by a clip used to keep the Frito bag closed and Oil of Olay spread across her cheeks".


...I laughed out loud, because it was one of the funniest bits of writing I've read in a while. My wife, an actual female, asked me what I was laughing about, and I read her this passage. She said DW was absolutely correct. My wife is usually right about these things, and being a female herself, is probably a better judge of women's intentions than a guy would be. So, point to DW on this one.
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