Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
13 Posts

Blood Bowl (2016 edition)» Forums » Rules

Subject: question about calculating AG tests rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Seb
msg tools
Hi,

I noticed that when performing an agility test, the agility table states that the test is a success is the Agility stat + dice result = 7+ (for 1 AG need 6+, so 1 + 6+ = 7+ ; for 2 AG need 5+, so 2 + 5+ = 7+ ; and so ...)
I noticed that every single action needing a test has a basic +1 bonus to the dice roll...
Would it more clear to state simply that the Agility + straight dice result must be equal to 6+ ??
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ron Price
United States
Columbus
Ohio
flag msg tools
It is pitch black.
badge
You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Well, not every test gives you the +1 -- interceptions, for instance, or catching a bouncing ball.

Certainly, remember it however you like, but I find that most players just know that:

For an AG 3 player, most stuff requires a 3+
For AG 4, you need a 2+,
For AG 2, you need a 4+,

...and then work out the other stuff from there. It becomes ingrained pretty quickly! I haven't used or really though about the charts unless I'm teaching somebody new.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jared Voshall
United States
Missouri
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Then again, that is one thing that I would have preferred they port over from Age of Sigmar (well, I'd also like to see a Stormcast and a Fyreslayer team, but that's beside the point) - instead of having the stats be 7 - Stat = Dice TN, just list the target number (3+, 4+, etc) instead. It's just an extra barrier to entry that really doesn't need to be there, and it really changes nothing about the game (all of the modifiers would be the same too, as they explicitly affect the dice roll, not the Agility stat itself). Still, it's a pretty minor niggle in an otherwise solid game, and definitely one of the very few things that I would change (with most of the others having already been covered).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brad Miller
United States
Seattle
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
puzzlemonkey wrote:
Well, not every test gives you the +1 -- interceptions, for instance, or catching a bouncing ball.

Certainly, remember it however you like, but I find that most players just know that:

For an AG 3 player, most stuff requires a 3+
For AG 4, you need a 2+,
For AG 2, you need a 4+,

...and then work out the other stuff from there. It becomes ingrained pretty quickly! I haven't used or really though about the charts unless I'm teaching somebody new.


As a new player, I read both your posts, and thought you were all insane, until I did the math. It's obviously "4 +1 for this dodge"...

That's what I've ingrained after the new rules and my first game.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Slev Sleddeddan
United Kingdom
Victoria Park
Manchester
flag msg tools
What part of "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn" don't you understand?
badge
Don't you open that trapdoor!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
An easier change would have been to apply the mod to the AG score and have it roll equal or less. 1's become good, 6's become bad. And they don't then have to change the rest of the material.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brad P
msg tools
mbmbmb
Slev wrote:
An easier change would have been to apply the mod to the AG score and have it roll equal or less. 1's become good, 6's become bad. And they don't then have to change the rest of the material.


The game is set up to essentially always want to roll high (outside of weather and kick off).

The biggest modifier to watch is passing as what type of failure depends on the modified die roll. Failure with 1 or less after the modifier results in the fumble as opposed to the inaccurate pass (which still could be caught by scattering into one of your players squares or next to a diving catch player).
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark Watson
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
Magius wrote:
instead of having the stats be 7 - Stat = Dice TN, just list the target number (3+, 4+, etc) instead. It's just an extra barrier to entry that really doesn't need to be there, and it really changes nothing about the game


Some skills depend on the attribute - Dauntless and Break Tackle for example. 7 - stat also means you can easily work out what a roll should be without having to consult a chart or card. I also suspect (hope!) Dungeonbowl will get a makeover as part of the new edition, and that also made more use of stat rolls. Brevity would be the other thing, particularly in player advancement or inducements - if a player gets +1 agility it's easy to work out (as above) how that affects play; if we were just using target numbers on the other hand you'd need some way of updating the target number of every agility based skill.

In terms of why they have the +1 for basic tests it smooths out the curve a little and keeps ball play alive. Without it you have problems with low Agi teams like dwarves or undead being far too dependent on certain players, meaning pretty much every game with them devolves into the same tactic of 'flatten the ball carriers' (as used to happen to the old Undead team. Kill off the ghouls and, barring an incredible string of luck, they were effectively out of the match - skeletons usually being unable to successfully pick up the ball while having enough time left on the clock to actually reach the endzone, since passing was out of the question).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John Woodworth
United States
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Magius wrote:
It's just an extra barrier to entry that really doesn't need to be there, and it really changes nothing about the game (all of the modifiers would be the same too, as they explicitly affect the dice roll, not the Agility stat itself).


But that isn't true, unless I don't get what you're saying.

Having it be a pure TN means every player has the same TN, and there's no difference between a AG2 and AG4 player.

In the base game that isn't such a big deal because only the Black Orc Blocker doesn't have a AG3. But once you start playing league and can increase the AG on a player or start using teams like elfs who have an AG4... This would be a fairly drastic change to the game.

If you give AG4 or AG2 players some sort of special modifier, you're back at the same place only changing what order the formula is in.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jared Voshall
United States
Missouri
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yeah, that's exactly what I'm suggesting. Instead of AG 2, you have Ag 5+, and instead of AG 4, you have AG 3+. The math's all the same, the only thing you're changing is how you calculate it (IE, just roll D6+Modifiers, try to beat Agility, rather than roll a D6 and try to beat 7 - AG+Modifiers). And, I agree that there isn't a huge difference between the two - but there is a small one, and it's one that makes the game that little bit more accessible and easy for players to understand. And, since the table is so straightforward, you're really not changing the game much by switching it like that.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John Woodworth
United States
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Magius wrote:
Yeah, that's exactly what I'm suggesting. Instead of AG 2, you have Ag 5+, and instead of AG 4, you have AG 3+.


Ok I see what you're saying.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Munch
Denmark
Lystrup
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Magius wrote:
Yeah, that's exactly what I'm suggesting. Instead of AG 2, you have Ag 5+, and instead of AG 4, you have AG 3+. The math's all the same, the only thing you're changing is how you calculate it (IE, just roll D6+Modifiers, try to beat Agility, rather than roll a D6 and try to beat 7 - AG+Modifiers). And, I agree that there isn't a huge difference between the two - but there is a small one, and it's one that makes the game that little bit more accessible and easy for players to understand. And, since the table is so straightforward, you're really not changing the game much by switching it like that.

But then lower is better for AGI, while higher is better for all the other stats.

The current system really isn't that hard.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brad P
msg tools
mbmbmb
Thain Esh Kelch wrote:
Magius wrote:
Yeah, that's exactly what I'm suggesting. Instead of AG 2, you have Ag 5+, and instead of AG 4, you have AG 3+. The math's all the same, the only thing you're changing is how you calculate it (IE, just roll D6+Modifiers, try to beat Agility, rather than roll a D6 and try to beat 7 - AG+Modifiers). And, I agree that there isn't a huge difference between the two - but there is a small one, and it's one that makes the game that little bit more accessible and easy for players to understand. And, since the table is so straightforward, you're really not changing the game much by switching it like that.

But then lower is better for AGI, while higher is better for all the other stats.

The current system really isn't that hard.


Yes, All the Stats have high as better, Move, Str, Armor, Ag.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ron Price
United States
Columbus
Ohio
flag msg tools
It is pitch black.
badge
You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thain Esh Kelch wrote:

The current system really isn't that hard.



What he said. Play three games, and you will regret the time you spent thinking about this entire topic.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.