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Subject: Question About Early Unlocked Advisor (minor spoilers) rss

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Josh Rylander
United States
Dallas
Texas
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The Master Thief states you can take your taxes from another player's vault. If they don't have enough in their vault to cover the taxes you should get, would you get the rest from the supply or not receive the full amount?

Normally, you would never get less than the amount of tax that you're supposed to, so it makes sense to cover the difference from the supply, but I could see the argument that since your stealing from someone else it's balanced out by them needing to have that amount. Then again it's already supposed to be balanced out by not being able to do it unless you can give back an enmity token.
 
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Paul Howard
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Coventry
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Given that it's a "can take from..." I would say you don't get the extra from the supply, you have to take it from one place. If they don't have enough money, then don't take from them and save the enmity token.
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j n
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Georgia
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I think Paul has it about right.
 
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Ian Liddle
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You know... technically it says:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
When you take the tax action, you may take the gold from any opponent's vault you are At War With. If you do, return one of their enmity tokens.


With the way that's worded (in the singular)
Spoiler (click to reveal)
i.e., "the gold," that does seems to imply that it's all or nothing.

BUT! It also could be read to imply that you take "the gold" (i.e., all of it) from that opponent.
 
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Becq
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Cerritos
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razordaze wrote:
You know... technically it says:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
When you take the tax action, you may take the gold from any opponent's vault you are At War With. If you do, return one of their enmity tokens.


With the way that's worded (in the singular)
Spoiler (click to reveal)
i.e., "the gold," that does seems to imply that it's all or nothing.

BUT! It also could be read to imply that you take "the gold" (i.e., all of it) from that opponent.

It could ... but it seems clear (to me, at least) that the only modification being made to the tax action is the source of the gold, not the amount of the gold. I think that they would have used a phrase such as "all of the gold in your opponent's treasury".

As a common sense supporting argument, consider that a province raid nets you half of the opponent's gold. It also risks damage to or destruction of your ship, and costs several actions to position your ships and quite a considerable chunk of enmity. Why should this advisor, with a single no-risk tax action and one "free" enmity, net you more than a modest amount?
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Paul Howard
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True, but frankly that would be ridiculous
 
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Ian Liddle
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Becq wrote:
As a common sense supporting argument, consider that a province raid nets you half of the opponent's gold. It also risks damage to or destruction of your ship, and costs several actions to position your ships and quite a considerable chunk of enmity. Why should this advisor, with a single no-risk tax action and one "free" enmity, net you more than a modest amount?

The Master Thief's offensive ability is always retaliatory, doesn't grant glory, and it's thematically sensible that a sneaky, underhanded Master Thief would have an easier time of depleting a treasury than an obvious, guns-blazing all-out attack... but I agree, it's silly.
 
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CD Harris
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Becq wrote:
As a common sense supporting argument, consider that a province raid nets you half of the opponent's gold. It also risks damage to or destruction of your ship, and costs several actions to position your ships and quite a considerable chunk of enmity. Why should this advisor, with a single no-risk tax action and one "free" enmity, net you more than a modest amount?


Agreed. It never occurred to me to read that card as saying anything other than 'take the gold you are entitled to by the Tax action from an opponent.' Could it be clearer? Sure. But absent express intent, I err on the side of not reading a broader exception to the rules than necessary into the text of a card.
 
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Jan Kowalczyk
Poland
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I want to revive this old thread.
I disagree with the previous statements.
In my opinion Master Thief is the "Master", so he can steal ALL the money from the opponent.
Situation is quite rare. You must have opponents enmity and this opponent must do nothing to prevent this (i.e. spend money, hire that advisor).
(Usually such theft will be the revenge for being previosly raided)
 
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j n
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johnny_b_goode wrote:
I want to revive this old thread.
I disagree with the previous statements.
In my opinion Master Thief is the "Master", so he can steal ALL the money from the opponent.
Situation is quite rare. You must have opponents enmity and this opponent must do nothing to prevent this (i.e. spend money, hire that advisor).
(Usually such theft will be the revenge for being previosly raided)


In some campaigns it would be rare and based on revenge for a raid. In others it would happen multiple games in a row before the robbed player even gets a turn to spend their cash, due to enmity given out before the game even starts.

The advisor is really cheap and already takes at least 5 gold, possibly more with other modifiers. There's no need to make it even harsher.
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Tomasz Virco
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Wrocław
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Another question:
The Master Thief

I do not have enmity tokens but I have enmity sticked to my province
Am I at war?
If so, Can I use Master thief special ability?
In what cost? zero or I have to unstick one of ths or maybe I have to give mine?
 
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Chris Willott
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You are not At War. It must be a token in your "At War With" section to use the ability.
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