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Vast: The Crystal Caverns» Forums » General

Subject: Would like to back, question on pledge levels rss

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Elliott Harding
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I'm a bit confused from reading the KS page.

What pledge level do I choose to get everything? I'm assuming the $85.00 pledge?

Thanks!
 
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Ethan Furman
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eharding wrote:

What pledge level do I choose to get everything? I'm assuming the $85.00 pledge?


$85 only covers the base game, miniatures, and possibly (I'm pretty sure) the promo cards. If you want the Ghost/Ghoul/Unicorn add $30.
 
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Justin Robben
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I am a recent backer who wants (needs?) everything , too.

I chose the $60 level for now, intending to add more for the add-on roles at some point.
As for the minis, I am waffling. They look great, but with much of my gaming budget invested in other things, I am not sure I can justify the additional amount for something that doesn't add to gameplay.
I understand the importance of aesthetics... just not certain my funds do.
 
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Raithyn
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stoneleaf wrote:
eharding wrote:

What pledge level do I choose to get everything? I'm assuming the $85.00 pledge?


$85 only covers the base game, miniatures, and possibly (I'm pretty sure) the promo cards. If you want the Ghost/Ghoul/Unicorn add $30.

You're correct. All backers ($5 and up) get promo cards for free. The expansion characters are not included in any pledge, so add $12/$24/$30, depending on have many of them (1/2/3) you want.

To your question Elliott, it's $85 + $30 = $115 (plus shipping per your pledge level, no extra needed for the characters) for everything on offer.
 
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Elliott Harding
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Thanks everyone!
 
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David desJardins
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Presumably there will also be a pledge manager after the campaign funds that will allow you to add different add-ons. Not everyone who pledged early is going to follow all of the changes or know exactly what they want.
 
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Patrick Leder
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I am not planning on using a pledge manager at this moment.

I guess I will have to. Its too bad pledge manager isn't exactly free.
 
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Ethan Furman
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GreenM wrote:

I am not planning on using a pledge manager at this moment. I guess I will have to.


Not at all. Send out a 10-day prior and 5-day prior to end-of-campaign updates that talk about all the new content and the add-ons, and make sure to mention that THERE WILL BE NO PLEDGE MANAGER. Use the funds you don't lose to buy more stock, or develop more roles, or however you feel.

I've only seen a pledge-manager in a couple of projects I have backed, and those projects did just fine without it.
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Iain Brown
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GreenM wrote:
I am not planning on using a pledge manager at this moment.

I guess I will have to. Its too bad pledge manager isn't exactly free.


I am really surprised Kickstarter haven't stepped up and done their own pledge manager that charges their normal fees. Given they already have a bunch of data from the campaign and backers it doesn't seem like it'd be too much work.
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Cindy M
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GreenM wrote:
I am not planning on using a pledge manager at this moment.

I guess I will have to. Its too bad pledge manager isn't exactly free.


Maybe come up with a few clear image examples about how much to pledge for in the updates leading up to the end of the campaign? And perhaps having a clear chart in that graphic about how much shipping costs are too.

For example, a possible update example of shipping costs can be like this:

"If you are new to the game and want EVERYTHING, your costs are..."
- $85 pledge level (Game + Miniatures) + $30 (all 3 add-ons) + Free Promo cards + Shipping (US $3, Canada $5, etc...this can be in a chart form perhaps?) = TOTAL PLEDGE VALUE
- Examples: Canada total pledge = $120, US total pledge = ....etc...

"If you have the 1st edition of the game and want EVERYTHING new, your costs are..."
- $35 pledge level (Upgrade pack + Miniatures)+ $30 (all 3 add-ons) + Free Promo cards + Shipping (US $3, Canada $5, etc...this can be in a chart form perhaps?) = TOTAL PLEDGE VALUE
- Examples: Canada total pledge = $70, etc...

Having example total pledges for popular countries can make it easier for people to double check their pledge amounts? If the shipping is broken down to US, Canada, EU, and Rest of the World that would be 4 example total pledges, not too bad at all to calculate and show.
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David desJardins
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stoneleaf wrote:
Send out a 10-day prior and 5-day prior to end-of-campaign updates that talk about all the new content and the add-ons, and make sure to mention that THERE WILL BE NO PLEDGE MANAGER.


But lots of people will have backed the project when it launched, and won't read the updates. You're leaving those people out. I guess that might be necessary, but I don't think it's desirable. To me it seems obvious there should be an after-the-campaign pledge manager. I'm surprised if the costs for that are higher than the regular campaign.
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Dean Winchester
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Has there been any mention if the miniatures will be sold outside of the campaign?
 
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Ethan Furman
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DaviddesJ wrote:

But lots of people will have backed the project when it launched, and won't read the updates.


That is their problem. KickStarter is not a store, and the nature of campaigns is that things will change before the end. I entirely understand not reading the comments, but the updates are meant to keep backers informed. If they choose to stay uninformed -- well, that's their choice.

DaviddesJ wrote:

You're leaving those people out. I guess that might be necessary, but I don't think it's desirable.


They are leaving themselves out. They are the only ones responsible for the (in)actions.

DaviddesJ wrote:

To me it seems obvious there should be an after-the-campaign pledge manager. I'm surprised if the costs for that are higher than the regular campaign.


If the campaign doesn't say there will be a pledge manager, why should there be?

And yes, the pledge managers are not included in the fees that KickStarter is already collecting.
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Patrick Leder
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I really should make a chart before I do it showing where should be pledging. I could also relieve a lot of pressure just by adding new pledge levels of the 2 most popular funding levels.

I assume I will have no issue getting the miniatures into retail seeing how far my distribution reach is now but all I can promise is I will do everything on my end to get them into distribution. What I can't guarantee is the price due to the number of models added by stretch goals.
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David desJardins
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stoneleaf wrote:
DaviddesJ wrote:

But lots of people will have backed the project when it launched, and won't read the updates.


That is their problem.


Obviously. Still, serving your customers and backers is better than not serving them.
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Patrick Leder
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I could always collect additional funds with Paypal after the campaign. Oh, wait.

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Andrés Santiago Pérez-Bergquist
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GreenM wrote:
I really should make a chart before I do it showing where should be pledging. I could also relieve a lot of pressure just by adding new pledge levels of the 2 most popular funding levels.


Yeah, adding some new levels that add $30 for the three new characters is probably the simplest option.
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Karl
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You might want to contact Awaken Realms, the creators of This War of Mine. They did their own pledge manager (gamefound.com) for their project and at least claimed at the time they would open it up for others. It's not perfect, but could be cheaper then current systems.
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Roger Bartels
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stoneleaf wrote:
DaviddesJ wrote:

But lots of people will have backed the project when it launched, and won't read the updates.


That is their problem. KickStarter is not a store, and the nature of campaigns is that things will change before the end. I entirely understand not reading the comments, but the updates are meant to keep backers informed. If they choose to stay uninformed -- well, that's their choice.

DaviddesJ wrote:

You're leaving those people out. I guess that might be necessary, but I don't think it's desirable.


They are leaving themselves out. They are the only ones responsible for the (in)actions.

DaviddesJ wrote:

To me it seems obvious there should be an after-the-campaign pledge manager. I'm surprised if the costs for that are higher than the regular campaign.


If the campaign doesn't say there will be a pledge manager, why should there be?

And yes, the pledge managers are not included in the fees that KickStarter is already collecting.


Clearly you have never worked in customer service in any capacity. Telling customers and potential customers who want to increase the money that they are willing to give you that encountering problems in doing so is their own fault is a recipe for failure. Not every customer pays the greatest attention to opportunities. It is the responsibility of the business (if they want money) to ensure that customers are aware of further purchase opportunities. This is basic business/sales common sense. Pledge managers and the like afford customers the chance to purchase more. Kickstarter may not be a store, but the folks putting projects there are certainly trying to make money.
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Ethan Furman
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Lemonpips wrote:

Clearly you have never worked in customer service in any capacity.


No, I have never worked in sales -- on purpose, because I know I suck at it.

Lemonpips wrote:

Telling customers and potential customers who want to increase the money that they are willing to give you that encountering problems in doing so is their own fault is a recipe for failure.


True. Good thing Patrick is not saying that.

Lemonpips wrote:
Not every customer pays the greatest attention to opportunities.


I think that's the heart of the disagreement. I don't see backers as customers -- after all, KickStarter is not a store (they say so themselves). Backers are investors, and any investment should be treated with caution, research, and occasional checking-in to see how things are going.

My contention is not that pledge managers are bad, just that they are not a given. Not every campaign needs, nor can afford, one; and in the end, it is the responsibility of every backer/investor to stay informed.

Lemonpips wrote:
It is the responsibility of the business (if they want money) to ensure that customers are aware of further purchase opportunities. This is basic business/sales common sense.


No, it is the responsibility of the business to make information available. I think sending out email updates completely cover that responsibility.

Which is to say, it is not the fault of the business if customers refuse to read the updates.

Lemonpips wrote:
Pledge managers and the like afford customers the chance to purchase more. Kickstarter may not be a store, but the folks putting projects there are certainly trying to make money.


And not wasting money is also basic business sense. Providing a pledge manager has an upfront monetary cost, an incremental monetary cost, and possible design costs -- missed stretch goals due to increased pledges after the campaign is over results in a lesser product.
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David desJardins
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stoneleaf wrote:
I don't see backers as customers -- after all, KickStarter is not a store (they say so themselves).


Kickstarter is "not a store" because the products sold through it are not complete and there is uncertainty about what you will get. But backers are definitely customers, not investors. I'm an actual investor. When I invest, I get a stake in the company and a return on investment. Kickstarter backers don't get any of that. They just get a product.
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Ethan Furman
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stoneleaf wrote:

I don't see backers as customers -- after all, KickStarter is not a store (they say so themselves).

DaviddesJ wrote:

... backers are definitely customers, not investors.


https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/investor:
An investor is someone who provides (or invests) money or resources for an enterprise, such as a corporation, with the expectation of financial or other gain.
 
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David desJardins
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stoneleaf wrote:
https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/investor:
An investor is someone who provides (or invests) money or resources for an enterprise, such as a corporation, with the expectation of financial or other gain.


This definition is overly broad. According to that definition, as you're interpreting it, if I walk into Safeway and pay money in exchange for a case of Coke, that makes me an investor. That's not the ordinary usage.
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Dylan Thurston
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Regardless of the debate about who is or is not an investor, the reward structure is now complicated enough that there's basically a 0% chance that everyone will get it right without some sort of pledge manager. I would also encourage Patrick to bite the bullet and do something along those lines.
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Ethan Furman
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DaviddesJ wrote:
stoneleaf wrote:
https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/investor:
An investor is someone who provides (or invests) money or resources for an enterprise, such as a corporation, with the expectation of financial or other gain.


This definition is overly broad. According to that definition, as you're interpreting it, if I walk into Safeway and pay money in exchange for a case of Coke, that makes me an investor. That's not the ordinary usage.


Good point. The missing piece is that an investment, whether money, time, labor, knowledge, etc., is at risk -- in other words, it's entirely possible for the investor to get nothing in return.

Which is definitely the case with Kickstarter.

On the other hand it would be entirely unusual to go to a store, pay money for a product, and then not have the product.
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