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Fatal Alliances: The Great War» Forums » Rules

Subject: Submarine use and strategy rss

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Jakub Kircun
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I'm pretty sure I have the submarine rules figured-out, but I just wanted to check some of its finer points. Following is a typical situation I find myself in: Generally speaking the German player sends his submarines out into the Atlantic wherever their are Allied convoys. Such a move cannot be intercepted by the Allies, nor can it be impeded by any Allied controlled "mine-zones" (other than the Baltic one). In a typical Atlantic sea-zone you then end up with some Allied convoys, several Allied SCS, and German U-boat or two. Am I right to assume that Allied SCS cannot force the German U-boats to battle? For instance, an Allied player could initiate a naval combat in a sea-zone where Germany only has U-boats, but the German player could simply decide not to commit his U-boats there, and the Allied player would have basically placed one its SCS face-down for nothing? The German player could of-course choose to commit the U-boats, but that's another story.
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Wendell
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Si non potes reperire Berolini in tabula, ludens essetis non WIF.
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You're right - NOBODY can force enemy subs into battle if the subs don't want to engage. So if in a sea area where the odds look bad, the subs can just hide.

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Jakub Kircun
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This also brings up another question. I suspect that submarines can only engage in submarine combat if they themselves achieved one-sided surprise? The way I read the rules, the only naval units "included" in naval combat are those that occupy a section at-or-above its side rolled search roll. If both sides achieved some degree of search success, it is very unlikely the "0-zone" will be included in naval combat, therefore no convoy points, thus no submarine combat possible.
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Wendell
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Nope; in fact the first option after the '3 surprise points I pick!' is submarine.

Remember, if your subs find and your opponent does NOT, the finding side must* pick one (or more) sea boxes containing enemy units; look at 11.4.4.1. The finding side with subs picks the enemy zero box, there are convoy points present, and voila! Submarine combat ensues.

*unless you use surprise to avoid combat
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Jakub Kircun
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Thanks again for the quick reply!

wifwendell wrote:
Remember, if your subs find and your opponent does NOT, the finding side must pick one (or more) sea boxes containing enemy units


What if both sides succeed in their search roll? In that case your submarines (and I'm assuming those are the only naval units on your side) would be limited to surface combat (or avoiding combat if 3+ surprise points are available). You could not use those 3 surprise-points to start a submarine-combat because I'm assuming the enemy convoy points would not be "included" (due to a successful search roll by the enemy). In other words, the only way for a submarine force to achieve submarine combat is to achieved a one-sided search success? Or to wait for the end-of-turn (and relatively low-yield) strategic-warfare segment.

I guess the specific question here is: "included units" are only those that would be so due to the search roll results, or selected by the winner of a one-sided search success?
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Wendell
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kubaman wrote:
Thanks again for the quick reply!

wifwendell wrote:
Remember, if your subs find and your opponent does NOT, the finding side must pick one (or more) sea boxes containing enemy units


What if both sides succeed in their search roll? In that case your submarines (and I'm assuming those are the only naval units on your side) would be limited to surface combat (or avoiding combat if 3+ surprise points are available). You could not use those 3 surprise-points to start a submarine-combat because I'm assuming the enemy convoy points would not be "included" (due to a successful search roll by the enemy). In other words, the only way for a submarine force to achieve submarine combat is to achieved a one-sided search success? Or to wait for the end-of-turn (and relatively low-yield) strategic-warfare segment.



If BOTH sides find, and assuming that neither side's zero box is included (that is possible if you roll really low and have some negative mods helping you), then yep you won't be able to choose a sub combat because no CPs are included. So then, it's surface.


kubaman wrote:
I guess the specific question here is: "included units" are only those that would be so due to the search roll results, or selected by the winner of a one-sided search success?


BOTH! "Included unit" in the context of 11.4.6.1 is any unit that is involved in the naval combat for whatever reason - whether because their side's search roll caused them to be involved, or because the other side (only) found and CHOSE to include their sea box.
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Jakub Kircun
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Thanks again for the clarifications!

As a noob to this game (or to any complex game for that matter) I always have to remind myself to read the rules in a literal manner. A simple word like "included", and how it's applied, can make a big difference!
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