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Subject: Q: Will the game ever be released without miniatures? A: rss

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that Matt
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Internally we had a lot of talk about this. I even have a quote for the core game with no mini's and just tokens sitting in my inbox. I decided I would let GenCon 2016 help me with the choice. We brought our last 50 off units to the show, they had no models in them as they were factory defects. We also brought enough sets of models (packed separately) to sell a la cart. Day 1, hour 1, we had a line that wrapped around many other booths and we got in trouble with the gencon police! We sold all of our games and here was the part that spoke to me... we only sold 5 games without miniatures. EVERYONE wanted them. The number of times I said: "Are you sure? Just the base game with no models is $100, with everything its $400" The models to me are an essential part of the experience and it seems the overwhelming majority feels the same way. Therefore I can say: We have ZERO plans to release our game or its expansions without miniatures.
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Klutz
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I'm sure you posted this in hopes of preventing future threads like this one: I know it won't happen, but it'd be great to have a no-miniatures pledge

But I don't think it's going to work... And I think you just created another thread where the same discussions will ensue...

IMO, you should've just posted this as a comment on that other thread.
You clearly want to reach the same people who participated in that thread, so...
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that Matt
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No, I posted this as its own thread because the question will continue to be asked for years, in many different places, and this is the most definitive statement he has made to date.

That said, people should (and will) feel free to contribute arguing over what should happen wherever they see fit. My post above indicates the best knowledge available about what will happen.
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sam newman

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i could potentially see a reprint without the armor sets, instead a few narative sculpts and either a price drop or simply more monsters in the base game.
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Steve
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gorkel wrote:
i could potentially see a reprint without the armor sets, instead a few narative sculpts and either a price drop or simply more monsters in the base game.


I can see that. It seems it is trending that way with the current KS content. Sure, he has said armor kits will still be made, but as an add-on type of item for the new stuff. Personally I plan on keeping all the narrative sets coming out of the gamblers chest and selling all of my armor sets from the base game. I am fine with only having a few cool looking miniatures to represent survivors as well as the 1st hero ones and the starter ones. Probably won't sell for much, but at least someone will get use out of them.
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Igor Persin
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So when game was 400$ no minis version was 100$, meaning miniatures cost 3/4 of the box. I would be first one to throw 60-65$ for just game with no minis(I have plenty of minsi at home) during KS. But that's just me. If same price applies to expansion, yea, I would much rather pay 1/4 price of expansion and get no minis.
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François Mahieu
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KDM wouldn't be KDM without their miniatures.
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Igor Persin
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Imagination is a very powerful thing
We played DnD back in the day with little to no minis, we had awesome time, and minis were not least needed for it
They are very nice indeed, but so is 300$ too.
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Peter Bowie
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gorkel wrote:
i could potentially see a reprint without the armor sets, instead a few narative sculpts and either a price drop or simply more monsters in the base game.


With the narrative sculpts in this KS, I'm surprised 1.5 even has the armor sets as default.
 
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Thorsten Schröder
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I like the idea behind the spures. But (without me having the game) I already have the feeling of dread that I would never be able to build all the options that my survivor want to explore. At the end of the day once you build your sprues you will have to proxy as closley as you can get...

I build a male white lion armor survivor with katars... but my players created a female.
There seem to be some clear choices of which weapon go best with wich armor set. So I think narrative miniatures (with more dynamic poses) are a good choice.
Unless you buy A LOT of sprues you will very seldom get a 'what-you-see-is-what-you-get' effect.
 
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John Middleton
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smurfORnot wrote:
Imagination is a very powerful thing
We played DnD back in the day with little to no minis, we had awesome time, and minis were not least needed for it
They are very nice indeed, but so is 300$ too.


KDM is not an RPG.
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The Judge
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For those that want it without, they just need to buy the core game and sell off the miniatures. It's a little more work, but in the end they'll get exactly what they are clamoring for.

And I don't think it will be that difficult to get rid of them. I'm actually thinking about wanting a second set of miniatures just because I have a nagging feeling I'm going to really screw up some of them during assembly/magnets/paintings. Or there's probably some people that want to paint them in different ways. I can't be alone in this.
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Stuart Holttum
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DegenerateElite wrote:
smurfORnot wrote:
Imagination is a very powerful thing
We played DnD back in the day with little to no minis, we had awesome time, and minis were not least needed for it
They are very nice indeed, but so is 300$ too.


KDM is not an RPG.


True - but the point still stands. Its perfectly possible to envisage a fight without requiring perfectly WYSIWYG miniatures to represent it. The game would not play any different if you used tiddlywinks for the survivors compared to having eight identically armed but differently posed figures for each survivor, that you swopped in and out depending on their actions (one running when they are moving, one with shield up, one drawing bow, one playing harp, etc).

Perhaps we have all been spoiled by the advances in video games over the last couple decades, but I know that I felt just as immersed by (for example) the original XCOM games as I do in the current one.
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Krzysztof RabidBlackDog
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I'll add something from KS comments

 
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Henry Akeley
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DegenerateElite wrote:
smurfORnot wrote:
Imagination is a very powerful thing
We played DnD back in the day with little to no minis, we had awesome time, and minis were not least needed for it
They are very nice indeed, but so is 300$ too.


KDM is not an RPG.


It's close.
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Grant
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ksiazekrzysztof wrote:
I'll add something from KS comments


Were you worried that people would think Matt made that up without photographic proof of the comment? Also, your image doesn't even show who made the comment... whistle
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Krzysztof RabidBlackDog
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A good one, 2/10
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Enkidu Ur
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I just wished they would sell partial replacement game materials. I got water damage on my game board.
 
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Thomas Delinck
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Epidemius wrote:

It's close.


It really isn't. It's a RPG only in the video game sense, not so much the classic D&D sense. There is no actual roleplaying involved and no DM required to run a unique game every time.

That said, KDM is as close to video game RPGs on a table as a person will ever find.
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David Clement
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I wouldn't pay $100 for this game without minis, but that's because I don't see the rest of the game worth that price tag. If it was closer to like, $60 I'd easily push that button. So maybe that's why only 5 sold. They just weren't at the right price point.
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Emmit Svenson
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smurfORnot wrote:
So when game was 400$ no minis version was 100$, meaning miniatures cost 3/4 of the box.


At the same time the game was selling for $400, KD sold a small number of defective game boxes for $100; few of their customers wanted them.

It's a looooong stretch from that to "minis cost 3/4s of the box." We don't know if the defective games were sold at a loss, for example.
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heavysuit wrote:
I wouldn't pay $100 for this game without minis, but that's because I don't see the rest of the game worth that price tag. If it was closer to like, $60 I'd easily push that button. So maybe that's why only 5 sold. They just weren't at the right price point.


Just like I hope I can get the splotter games for 30 or something =/
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Sithrak - The god who hates you unconditionally
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DFu4ever wrote:
Epidemius wrote:

It's close.


It really isn't. It's a RPG only in the video game sense, not so much the classic D&D sense. There is no actual roleplaying involved and no DM required to run a unique game every time.

That said, KDM is as close to video game RPGs on a table as a person will ever find.

Well, it fits the "kick in the door" style of P&P RPGs that some people prefer (and that was apparently standard back in the early days) pretty closely. Obviously you're not getting political intrigue, varied diplomacy, on the spot thinking, custom rule calls for unexpected things, off-script exploration and creative problem solving in KDM, but then, that wasn't the strength or Orgnork Murderkiller from Death Mountain either.
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Montgomery Mullen
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The only things really separating KD:M from a conventional tabletop RPG is that it is co-op (though note that there ARE some indy RPGs which are co-op) and that there is no explicitly defined 'role playing' component. Converting it to an actual RPG would take minimal work if you wanted to do a simple job of it. The roots of the KD:M system (i.e. tons of random tables) are very solidly in the early RPG camp.

For those of you new to the game and worried about the armor kits: we use them for our KD:M hall of fame. Those survivors who do something incredible, are prominent in some way or survive the whole game etc. get immortalized. In a way, I suppose they are our own narrative minis. Food for thought, if you feel like you're not sure what to do with the kits.
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Martinus Curiosus
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Guess, for a shunk of people this means the KD:M experience will continue to include a 'I sold on ebay what I didn't want' component in the years to come
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