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Subject: some general questions- Opinions needed rss

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Would you agree that just buying the base game is enough for casual gaming group ? would getting the base game and expansion adds more armies and the game becomes more complex and longer ?

I noticed there are some heroes for this game on other game (Dungeonquest) and there are some promo heroes. would you agree that there is no need to chase after these promo heroes or having more heroes will increase game replayability ?

When you play this game do you feel like you are representing the hero or are you more the general in charge of the army ?

Sorry just trying to determine if this game will fit into our group or
not. we really enjoy players represent heroes and battle against game elements as well as each other heroes.

Thanks for your time.







 
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Scott Lewis
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ageofconan wrote:
Would you agree that just buying the base game is enough for casual gaming group ? would getting the base game and expansion adds more armies and the game becomes more complex and longer ?

The base game is definitely enough for a casual (or even serious) group to play and enjoy for a long time.

That said, there is not that much extra complexity in the expansion, either. You'll do fine either way.

Quote:
I noticed there are some heroes for this game on other game (Dungeonquest) and there are some promo heroes. would you agree that there is no need to chase after these promo heroes or having more heroes will increase game replayability ?

There is plenty of replayability with the base game heroes, even in their limited quantity. The expansion adds several more.

Also, if you have any of the Descent 1E or Runebound 2E figures, I've created a whole bunch of custom hero cards for the ones not included in the game. (I haven't done so yet for the Descent 2E heroes, though, but maybe eventually).

Quote:
When you play this game do you feel like you are representing the hero or are you more the general in charge of the army ?

Runewars is an army game, empire building. The heroes are a cog in that, but you definitely are playing the general overall, not the hero.
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John Di Ponio
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Well said Scott.
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Matt Price
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Exactly what I would have said! I think one base set will give you a lot of play value, much more so than say the base set of Star Wars Armada, another similar game

sigmazero13 wrote:


Runewars is an army game, empire building. The heroes are a cog in that, but you definitely are playing the general overall, not the hero.


And given that they're releasing a campaign expansion for Star Wars Armada, what seems a bit like a board game, within which you play out each battle using your Armada stuff, I've got my fingers crossed that we might see an empire building expansion released down the line.

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Karl Hoche
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I enjoyed the base game for the first 4 plays but after that I found the elves were the weakest of the races. The expansion fixed that and also added a lot more army variety of figures to all the races. I recommend getting the expansion.
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Cracky McCracken
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I would totally agree that adding Runewars to your collection is a great idea. RW is a well crafted machine, your group will love it.
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Diana craciun
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as my friends said, RW is very special game and if you decide to give it a chance it will offer you gaming experience than no other. You REALLY feel you are in command of your army and faith of your race depends on your decisions. Your loyal heroes will try to make you proud by completing the Quests.

(we have one tiny house rules for the heroes which are Trophy tokens.
Each time a hero completes a Quest, that hero receives a Trophy token and at the end of the game you award Terrinoth Champion Title to the hero with the most Trophy tokens).



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Mark_of_Heresy wrote:
I enjoyed the base game for the first 4 plays but after that I found the elves were the weakest of the races. The expansion fixed that and also added a lot more army variety of figures to all the races. I recommend getting the expansion.

For what it's worth, with the Revised Edition, the elves are a bit nicer even without the expansion. The change to the Sorceress' ability to let the Latari player choose which enemy is retreated is pretty strong
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frida lavassani
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if you end up getting the game and liking it just be advised of couple things. One is that there are 4 hero expansions which you have very rare chance of getting them (in English language printing) as they were promotional items for 3 FFG games-one being runewars. The other thing is that you may like it so much and then wonder is there ever going to be another expansion such as the dwarves and orcs which is sad to say there will not be any. They are not even interested to reprint the Banners of War expansion.

Its a FFG track record of starting something nice with strong theme and then leaving it abandoned.


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Thank you for giving opinions about this game. I am going to order a new condition copy on eBay this evening.
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The Moon wrote:
Its a FFG track record of starting something nice with strong theme and then leaving it abandoned.

I'm not sure what you mean by "abandoned". Not every board game needs to have expansions on top of expansions to be worthwhile; the game works great even without the expansion, and the expansion it has is great.

Anything else would just be gravy.

If they don't print it again, that's probably because sales were flagging, and it's run its course (but I suspect they'll continue to reprint it for awhile yet, even if there's time between reprints).
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are you joking ? you know exactly what i mean Scott.

They start a game with strong theme (Terrinoth) and its factions.
Rune Age and its expansion have six factions. Its like a movie or a novel which begins giving its reader story of the factions and then suddenly
one faction is left out so the movie, novel, game is not complete.

Look at BattleLore for example:
they start with 2 factions, then added the undead and instead of continuing with other factions they decide keep selling more units of the already published factions. so the other 3 factions are now left out and apparently Battlelore 2nd edition did not sell well so further production is abandoned
(I wonder why)

Look at Runebound (First Edition) as another example:
they started the 1st edition and published one mini expansion, people spent their money then FFG decides lets start a 2nd edition and then published 36 mini expansions and some large expansions so people invested more money and now instead of continue with 2nd expansion they decide to come back full circle and start a 3rd edition. Is this how they attract fan base ??
by keep using people`s money and start with new editions ?

this has nothing to do with game being completed. This has everything to do with start a strong, attractive theme and using people`s money and then start all over again and expect people to buy their product. This is poor marketing and management.

Games workshop before they became a monster of what they are now at least published armies for every faction and army books so the theme was created and completed. Here the theme is not complete. It is abandoned and
now they are starting Runewars Miniatures Game instead of continuing with
Battlelore or even here Runewars.

here in Runewars, they published one expansion which is more units of the same armies and then decided to have REVISED edition of the base game instead of publish the 2nd expansion and introduce the orcs and dwarves and complete the theme.

The only terrinoth theme game they managed to complete without messing it up is Rune Age and Rune Age: Oath and Anvil which ironically
has a Runewars scenario so as a player we can play with all 6 factions.

let me guess you do not think any of these stop-restart editions have influenced keeping their fan base (or lack of)


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The Moon wrote:
are you joking ? you know exactly what i mean Scott.

Yes, I know what you mean with your exaggerated rhetoric. When I say "I'm not sure what you mean", I was more saying "I'm not sure why you think that", because I certainly don't agree.

My point is, though, that a game doesn't need to constantly be expanding to be considered "unabandoned". Battlelore may be going away, but the other games seem to be still being reprinted occasionally.

I don't agree with your Runebound thing; new editions is not the same as abandonment. Often, new editions are to help bootstrap a game into a more modern market and gameplay tendencies, though there are sometimes market and production reasons for it as well. Runebound was updated to 2E, then 3E - that's not abandonment, that's evolution.

Same could be said for Descent, although I know there are a lot that don't like the direction 2E went - but it's not a matter of abandonment, but rather an evolution of the game.

Runewars doesn't need more expansions. Sure, two more factions would be fun, but it doesn't NEED them to be a viable, fun, and long-lasting game. And as long as people keep buying it and they keep reprinting it, it will be supported.

I think you and I have a different idea of what "abandonment" means for games. Of the Terrinoth games, Battlelore is the only one I'd really consider for that label (and even then, I'm not convinced of it being abandoned outright, but rather discontinued because of lack of sales).


I don't buy a board game expecting to be buried in expansions, though I don't discount the idea as well. I buy a game hoping the game as-is will work fine, and if more comes out, great; but if not, I still have a great game. So far, for me, the Terrinoth games have fit that bill - even BattleLore, which I think will have great longevity with what's out.
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The Moon wrote:


this has nothing to do with game being completed. This has everything to do with start a strong, attractive theme and using people`s money and then start all over again and expect people to buy their product. This is poor marketing and management.

let me guess you do not think any of these stop-restart editions have influenced keeping their fan base (or lack of)




I cannot disagree with this analysis. The Runewars: Miniatures is particularly disappointing especially since Battle Lore 2 turned out to be overly streamlined and repetative -- I expect more of the same with this new title and won't spend my money on it. Initially I was impressed with FFG due to War of the Ring and they did a great job with outfitting BattleLore 1, then they lost a lot of fans with disgorging BL2. Except BL2 fans, of course, who seem to love playing the streamlined game with their children, which is fine, but it ain't no BL1.

Personally I feel I cannot count on FFG to be consistent. It's a shame; I love Runewars but now they've turned away from producing obvious winners like the missing Orc/Dwarf factions.
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Marc Hanna
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sigmazero13 wrote:
The Moon wrote:
are you joking ? you know exactly what i mean Scott.


My point is, though, that a game doesn't need to constantly be expanding to be considered "unabandoned". Battlelore may be going away, but the other games seem to be still being reprinted occasionally.

Runewars doesn't need more expansions. Sure, two more factions would be fun, but it doesn't NEED them to be a viable, fun, and long-lasting game. And as long as people keep buying it and they keep reprinting it, it will be supported.



Scott you make good points as usual, but what is missing from your logic is that is that Runewars does need expansions, RATHER than the miniatures game. If it's as good as you say, why not treat us with the expansions instead of yet another streamlined BL2 clone (as it looks to be, I am projecting a bit here).

cheers!
 
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I've been playing Runewars since I got it a few years ago(with the sole expansion that it's got,it's been 5years I think).

The game always shows a new face each time I play it, both with veterans and new players and it also doesn't cease to impress me.

So, it's a 4 player game with 4 very well balanced races with a multitude of options when configuring your army and subtle sinergies between each of the faction units(+ neutrals).

I always long to play it, I travel a bit so each time I get home I play it 4-5 times(/year). I used to play it more than that, I never felt the need for more factions or anything.

I really do it consider one of FFG's best designs.

Releasing many expansions would only make it a collectible miniatures game.

I don't feel the need for more tactics, units, heroes or anything.

Of course two more races would be cool, but they wouldn't be much different from those we already have.

I've noticed a reply where someone was saying that Runeage has Dwarves and orcs.

Dwarves rely on money which is non existent in runewars and orcs rely on having no cards in hand(have no units on adj. hexes when attacking?)

Also, the initiatives go from one to four, in a thematic way. There would either be 0 and 5, or 5 and 6. Which would make no sense in some faction combinations imho.

Play with up to 6? I wouldn't do that. There's twilight imperium available in its last and probably best iteration for players wanting that(i've never played the second or first edition). You'd need -wormholes- in Runewars in order to play with more than 4.

So.. I think FFG stopped before it became messy. I don't see the need for a new edition since the game is a very tight and streamlined design, ahead of it's time, I think.

-edit- Unautocorrected.
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mvl4d wrote:
I've been playing Runewars since I got it a few years ago(with the sole expansion that it's got,it's been 5years I think).

The game always shows a new face each time I play it, both with veterans and new players and it also doesn't cease to impress me.

So, it's a 4 player game with 4 very well balanced races with a multitude of options when configuring your army and subtle sinergies between each of the faction units(+ neutrals).

I always long to play it, I travel a bit so each time I get home I play it 4-5 times(/year). I used to play it more than that, I never felt the need for more factions or anything.

I really do it consider one of FFG's best designs.

Releasing many expansions would only make it a collectible miniatures game.

I don't feel the need for more tactics, units, heroes or anything.

Of course two more races would be cool, but they wouldn't be much different from those we already have.

I've noticed a reply where someone was saying that Runeage has Dwarves and orcs.

Dwarves rely on money which is non existent in runewars and orcs rely on having no cards in hand(have no units on adj. hexes when attacking?)

Also, the initiatives go from one to four, in a thematic way. There would either be 0 and 5, or 5 and 6. Which would make no sense in some faction combinations imho.

Play with up to 6? I wouldn't do that. There's twilight imperium available in its last and probably best iteration for players wanting that(i've never played the second or first edition). You'd need -wormholes- in Runewars in order to play with more than 4.

So.. I think FFG stopped before it became messy. I don't see the need for a new edition since the game is a very tight and streamlined design, ahead of it's time, I think.

-edit- Unautocorrected.


very good comments! I do love the game, I can't play it enough due to lack of opponents but I could try harder to find them if I weren't so involved in other games.

I don't think the idea with 2 more factions would have to be to play 6 player, it would change the game too much. Resources could be considered money; I'm sure there could be a way to 'dwarfenize' them. Not sure about the 'orcs' as I don't have Rune Age
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I'm just glad the OP decided to buy a copy. This is one game which truly deserves to be savored.

As others have said, I can't play it often enough and just plain love it. It's like playing a new fantasy-novel series every time.
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Honosbinda wrote:
sigmazero13 wrote:
The Moon wrote:
are you joking ? you know exactly what i mean Scott.


My point is, though, that a game doesn't need to constantly be expanding to be considered "unabandoned". Battlelore may be going away, but the other games seem to be still being reprinted occasionally.

Runewars doesn't need more expansions. Sure, two more factions would be fun, but it doesn't NEED them to be a viable, fun, and long-lasting game. And as long as people keep buying it and they keep reprinting it, it will be supported.



Scott you make good points as usual, but what is missing from your logic is that is that Runewars does need expansions, RATHER than the miniatures game. If it's as good as you say, why not treat us with the expansions instead of yet another streamlined BL2 clone (as it looks to be, I am projecting a bit here).

I stand by my point - it does NOT need expansions. I don't have a problem with the miniatures game (which is more a "replacement" for BattleLore than this game). Again, while expansions wouldn't hurt, it is a solid game as-is, and has lots of longevity. More factions or expansions would be gravy, but are not necessary to make the game vibrant and good.
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sigmazero13 wrote:

I stand by my point - it does NOT need expansions. I don't have a problem with the miniatures game (which is more a "replacement" for BattleLore than this game). Again, while expansions wouldn't hurt, it is a solid game as-is, and has lots of longevity. More factions or expansions would be gravy, but are not necessary to make the game vibrant and good.


I like your stand but it remains a fact that FFG is trying to divert us from BL2 to a miniatures game based on Runewars (taking advantage of Runewars success??) to take our spending dollars. Well, I would rather spend on expansions of Runewars. It's precisely because of it's success that additional expansions would be of merit and possibly bring back some buyers who feel jilted by their current business plan.

No, the game does not need expansions, but this discussion is not only about the game, but the tack that FFG is taking with their marketing, which, if you do support people continuing to buy the game, I would think you would lobby for these expansions, rather than shrug off these diversionary attempts to produce streamlined and not-so-fun games even if the setup time and play time is reduced.

I feel like I wasted a lot of money on BL2 -- while I didn't feel that way at all fleshing out a BL1 collection from scratch purchases here and there. BL1 is on the shelf, BL2 is in a box in the garage. Sorry, but if these guys want me to buy more stuff from them, they should go the rout of Advanced Squad Leader and produce Runewars modules for decades to come. The game is that good.
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Honosbinda wrote:
sigmazero13 wrote:

I stand by my point - it does NOT need expansions. I don't have a problem with the miniatures game (which is more a "replacement" for BattleLore than this game). Again, while expansions wouldn't hurt, it is a solid game as-is, and has lots of longevity. More factions or expansions would be gravy, but are not necessary to make the game vibrant and good.


I like your stand but it remains a fact that FFG is trying to divert us from BL2 to a miniatures game based on Runewars (taking advantage of Runewars success??) to take our spending dollars. Well, I would rather spend on expansions of Runewars.

That may be, but you are talking apples and oranges here. The Runewars mini game may be competing/replacing BattleLore 2E, but other than the name and theme, it has nothing to do with Runewars (board game).

You could make the same argument that "why do they keep developing Descent expansions, when they could be making Runewars", or even "Why do they make their Game of Thrones game, when they could be making Runewars".

Quote:
...which, if you do support people continuing to buy the game, I would think you would lobby for these expansions, rather than shrug off these diversionary attempts to produce streamlined and not-so-fun games even if the setup time and play time is reduced.

Again, I think these are false connections. More expansions to the game wouldn't make the game "better" just because; the game can still sell well as-is. Just look at Twilight Imperium; it continues to sell well, despite not having a new expansion in years, and sold very well in the years between expansion 1 and expansion 2.

Quote:
I feel like I wasted a lot of money on BL2 -- while I didn't feel that way at all fleshing out a BL1 collection from scratch purchases here and there. BL1 is on the shelf, BL2 is in a box in the garage. Sorry, but if these guys want me to buy more stuff from them, they should go the rout of Advanced Squad Leader and produce Runewars modules for decades to come. The game is that good.

It is that good - and that's precisely why I don't want them to keep making expansions just to satisfy some artificial need for them. Perhaps that route works for some games, and ASL may fit, but that's because they were built to be modular like that. In fact, I think that model fits best for scenario-oriented games like ASL, Descent, BattleLore, etc.

For what it's worth, I don't regret a single purchase of BL2E. I own it all, and I'm glad I do. I have MOST of the BL1E stuff, but to be honest, I haven't played it once since BL2E came out, because I just like the BL2E implementation better. But that's going to be a matter of taste.

Would I say no to a Runewars expansion? No, not if it was done well. But I'm not going to clamor for it, either, as I do like having variety of different games as well - I don't play Runewars exclusively.

Runewars can continue to thrive without expansions, becuase it IS that good a game. It's true that it may eventually fade, but even the best games do as times change, and while an expansion MIGHT help with that, it also might not.
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To distill my point down - I think it's great having some games that don't need endless expansions to be a solid part of my collection, and thus far, I've been happy to have Runewars as one of them.
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sigmazero13 wrote:
To distill my point down - I think it's great having some games that don't need endless expansions to be a solid part of my collection, and thus far, I've been happy to have Runewars as one of them.


Well, as neither of us (?) are in charge of their business choices, we'll just have to see if they can thrive with them. Because if they don't, there won't be any more reprints of Runewars or Banners of War, much less any expansions.

Given they do have the three winners going for them (not familiar with Twilight Imperium because it doesn't appeal to me but I can take your word on it), I'm sure they can weather some decision storms; but as it stands, I'll be spending my money elsewhere for the time being.

all the best!
 
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I'm late to the party! Quite the conversation going on here.

I'm a huge fan of BattleLore 2E and Runewars. In my opinion, Runewars is a complete game. IF there were more expansions for Runewars, I think some new quests would be nice, even if it doubled on areas so you could visit the same area twice. I just feel that questing is the one part of the game that gets repetitive and that's probably because it is the only one with inherent narrative. But I think a Runewars expansion has just as much likelihood to destroy the game as it does to improve the game, and it's already so fun that I think it's not worth the risk of developing a new expansion.

BattleLore 2E is incomplete because the Latari elves were never released, not because the game is shallow. Like Scott, I believe this was a case of lack of customer support. FFG doesn't want to kill their games off, but if people aren't buying a game, it makes no sense to keep producing it. Plus, our world is starting to become a micro-transaction society. You see it in video games and now it's here in board games. People apparently find it easier to buy a small expansion than to buy a whole new game. That, or people are just so addicted to being completionists that they can't not get every expansion. This new culture makes it much more profitable for FFG to produce a game like RuneWars where there are (presumably) a lot of small packages rather than a few big boxes. It lets people buy just what they want, but leaves it open for people to buy way more than they need. With BattleLore, you could totally buy multiple core sets or army packs, and the new pieces would be useful (you could have multiple Legend units, for example). But BattleLore was packaged like a board game, and you typically only buy one of each expansion for board games. I think FFG figured that a miniatures game distribution would make more money, so BattleLore was dropped and RuneWars introduced.

Again, when it comes to Runewars, it is pretty complete. Orcs and Dwarves could be interesting, but I think it's too much work to make them fit into the system for relatively little benefit. As mentioned above, the starting Influence-Tactics levels are nice and symmetrical and it would be clunky to try to force two new factions into that system. (I suppose you could do 5 influence and 0 tactics for Dwarves and 0 influence and 5 tactics for Orcs, but that seems thematically off to me.) If we do get a miraculous Runewars expansion, I won't turn it down, but I don't ache for a Runewars expansion like I do for BattleLore elves.
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Thanks, good response, Garrett, and probably the best thought out of them all.

I often take a contentious position during these discussions because it engenders more commentary.

However, I'm sure that some find it inimical.

I think there is a trend to streamline board games to make them easier to setup and play, in the hopes of drawing people away from computer games. So I scratch my head wrt BL2, where they went ahead and decided to do both an IOS game along with a board game -- then didn't complete the package and I am given to understand that they will not be.

People aren't buying the game enough because nobody can figure out what their intentions are (at least wrt to BL2).

Now they are confounding this with a Rune Wars miniatures game; no matter how it's argued, they are making a play to tap into Runewars to get a bounce off of it. A lot of fanfare around this Runewars miniatures game as I recall, but I'm not impressed and very cautious after how they handled BL2. Besides, even if there is this small purchase culture as you indicate may be the case, in order to play a decent game, you still need to buy enough figures to outfit an army, right?

Another consequence of all this is that the streamlined games just are not as interesting as wargames / more full board games, although they may be super-fun as quick family games. That's how I see BL2. The game has nothing of the strategic depth of something like War of the Ring or Battlelore 1.

But anyway I am repeating myself and this is getting off topic from the OP -- so congrats to the OP for making a fine purchase of an outstanding game. cheers.

 
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