Recommend
14 
 Thumb up
 Hide
18 Posts

Industria» Forums » Reviews

Subject: Hey! This is not a boardgame! rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Thor Egil Braadland
Norway
Oslo
flag msg tools
Thor Egil Braadland, Oslo
badge
Thor Egil Braadland, Oslo
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I recently changed my Industria rating from 8 to 3.

Why so?

I bought this high rated Queen game for three reasons: The first one was the name and subtitle; 'Industria - 600 years of development', suggesting a 'civ/tech developing game, evolutionary in the sence that future uncertainty is combined with path bound rationality; i.e. options may lead in many and uncertain directions, meaning you don't know today what is smarter to do - at the same time as your'e always standing on the shoulders of earlier achievements' kinda game.

The second reason was - simply enough - that it was supposed to be a boardgame. I love boardgames.

The third reason was that I was in a phase where I explored games with different auctioning techniques. This game has an interesting auctioning technique (see below).

The reason I changed my rating from 8 to 3 was I went from rating the game based on my imagination and subconscious hope of what this game could have been, or sounds like, to rating it based on what it actually provides. It's a weak 3.

The idea of the game: The board is marked with several buildings, most of them producing raw materials or manufactured goods that other buildings need to be built. The buildings are divided into five historical phases, starting with Well, Mines, Saw mill etc (in the first phase), via oil raffinery, bank, stock exchange and more in the three middle phases, to the modern robot factory, semi conductor plant etc in the last phase. With every phase there are two technologies (four in the last phase).

Now, you score when you construct buildings. Some of the buildings are connected with roads, and at the end of the game you get an extra score for interlinked buildings. You also score for playing correct technology in the correct 'historical phase'. Some of the technologies are interlinked, also. in addition, you get extra score if you have infrastructure cards that go along with the correct buildings (the oil raffinery gives score for possesing pipe line, the semi conductor plant gives extra score for posessing electricity etc.). The score field is marked at the bottom of the board.

The bidding part is the most fun part of the game; hence the 3. The auctioneer role is to make the two or three other players bid for the building/tech/infrastructure cards. Then the auctioneer decides whether to sell the card to the highest bidder (auctioneer keeping the money), or take the card for free, leaving the money and passing the job as auctioneer to the next player. The acquired card may later be placed (for a given price) on the board, at it's unique place, with the posessing player's mark on it. This is the only function of the board.

My critique of this game is:

A) This is not an evolutionarly game. What you do in the past has almost nothing do do with what you may do in the future, technology-wise. Technology doesn't evolve based on your efforts, there is noe real change in productivity if you acquire technology, and technology has little to do with the buildings you build. There is no way that technology will help you develop a malfunctioning or wrongly acquired building / plant.

B) This is not a board game, it's a card game. It is actually very easy to imagine skipping the buildings placement on the board, and just play building/tech/infrastructure cards in front of you (given they were marked with which combinations of cards that boost score), adding the points at the end of the game.

NB added later: [I have of course played the game before rating it as an eight. And i meant it. I liked the game, because of the mere IDEA of technology and evolution being important in the game, the thought of playing a game with history, technology, new industries etc., BUT as with some girlfriends/boyfriends, you think you like it, the relationship is working, happily married, no worries - UNTILL you take a step back and really ask yourself: What is this actually giving me? And the answer is ZIP].

It was when I - disappointed as a dog - realised this last point I decided to change the rating, and write this review. I give the game credit for an amusing auction/bidding function. But thats it.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
R.T. Sloan
United States
Pittsburgh
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
This is why you shouldn't rate a game until you actually play it.
15 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Adam Berkan
Canada
Calgary
Alberta
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
You're right that the technology is really tacked on in this game. You need to build the right factories before you can discover the tech, and then the tech just gives you points. In fact in many cases you won't be able to research the tech during that era so the tech will go undiscovered... Very bad theme integration.

The board I'm not quite as critical of. You do get bonuses for industries that are connected by roads on the board. Granted there are very few connections (most factories have 0 or 1) but they do add something to the game. Still there's some sense of "This is my neighborhood and I don't want your kind building stuff here..."


I agree that as a "Board" game it is kinda weak, but as a card/board hybrid I think it is a good game. I think you should give it another play and think of it as just a partially-abstract card game with a fancy board and see if you still hate it. It won't be an 8, but it should be higher than a 3...
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Snowball
Belgium
n/a
flag msg tools
badge
Gender: pot*ato. My opinion is an opinion.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
sloan66 wrote:
This is why you shouldn't rate a game until you actually play it.

my thoughts exactly
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve Hughes
United States
Orlando
Florida
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
sloan66 wrote:
This is why you shouldn't rate a game until you actually play it.


Do people actually do this?

I can understand having a private rating system for unplayed games (to determine buying priority for the games on one's radar), but to enter those ratings in BGG's system seems entirely inappropriate. A rating uninformed by actual play of the game in question invalidates the data. And as the sovereign word of BGG, the ratings are inviolate.

Okay, okay, I don't even pay any attention to the BGG ratings -- whatsoever. I read reviews, ratings, and session reports by my Geekbuddies to determine whether a game sounds like my kind of thing.

Still, rating unplayed games?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gary Pressler
United States
West Lafayette
Indiana
flag msg tools
designer
OMG! Overtext! How long have I been sleeping?! OVERTEXT! Also, I'm a DESIGNER now?! Sweet! OVERTEXXXXXXT!
badge
HO HO HO! Give me some money!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The bulk of this review is quite good. You give a nice explanation of the basic play and, more importantly, why the game fails to impress you. I've been wanting to try this game for a while. I still do, but your review has helped to temper my expectations. I would also have liked for it to be more of a "building" game where the different techs you start with help determine what you may play later.

However, this is just baffling.

Quote:
I recently changed my Industria rating from 8 to 3.

Why so? [...]

The reason I changed my rating from 8 to 3 was I went from rating the game based on my imagination and subconscious hope of what this game could have been, or sounds like, to rating it based on what it actually provides. It's a weak 3.

I'll admit the first line hooked me, however, I very nearly stopped reading when I hit your explanation of why. This is, quite frankly, ridiculous. Rating a game based on your expectations, what you've read, or because you think the box art is pretty is all about the same value -- nil. For a game like this with a lot of ratings, you won't skew things much, but I hope you don't do this with every game.

Like I said, I am glad I read the rest of the review. I generally think reviews written after only one play are highly suspect, but this was helpful in that it explained why your expectations were not met. The Wishlist function is a good way to gauge your expectations; please reserve Ratings for actual ratings.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sebastian
Germany
Hürth
NRW
flag msg tools
badge
I won an Games for Geekgold Lottery with 0.09% Chance of winning. You sure you wanna mess with me?
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
If you take THAT a critic look on the game board in a board game you'll come along some of them, that barely use the board.

Oltre Mare for instance (at least in the Amigo version)
Caylus too, if you really want to push it (which Caylus Magna Carta obviously prooves).
Not even to speak of Lost Cities or Blue Moon...

Still I woudn't rate any of these games based on the frequency gaming material hits the board...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Bailey
United States
Broomfield
Colorado
flag msg tools
badge
GO ROCKIES!!!!!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yeah, I originally rated Formula De a 10 thinking the game would include a real car and a track to race on. Imagine my disappointment when I found out it was a BOARDGAME with dice. It's a weak 3.

Industria on the other hand is a really fun auction game. I read up on it before I bought it and I knew what it was and it sounded like something I would like and I did. After playing it I rated it.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eric Brosius
United States
Needham Heights
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
badge
My favorite 18xx game for six players is two games of 1846 with three players each.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'd like to present a contrary opinion. I actually like Industria, a game I rate as a '7' on the BGG scale, but I understand the fact that there are some games you just don't enjoy.

I looked through the games I've rated '3' and found the following games that are generally well-liked even though I don't like them:

Torres
Traders of Genoa
Boomtown
Masons
Die Baumeister von Arkadia
Die Saulen von Venedig

When I've played these games, I've seen that the other players are enjoying themselves, and I can't say that there's anything objectively wrong with any of them, but in each case I've found myself wishing the game would be over as soon as possible so I could go on to something I enjoy. I try not to ruin anyone else's enjoyment by visibly displaying my disappointment, but for some reason these games just didn't click with me.

If you felt this way when you played Industria, then it's perfectly appropriate to have rated it as a '3'. I'd rather see people rating games based on their own enjoyment and not based on some attempt to measure theoretical "quality."

This also illustrates another point, which is why you shouldn't rate games you haven't played yet. It's hard to tell just by reading the rules whether you'll actually enjoy them.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Thor Egil Braadland
Norway
Oslo
flag msg tools
Thor Egil Braadland, Oslo
badge
Thor Egil Braadland, Oslo
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
GaryP wrote:
However, this is just baffling.

Quote:
I recently changed my Industria rating from 8 to 3.

Why so? [...]

The reason I changed my rating from 8 to 3 was I went from rating the game based on my imagination and subconscious hope of what this game could have been, or sounds like, to rating it based on what it actually provides. It's a weak 3.


I have of course played the game before rating it as an eight. And i meant it. I liked the game, because of the mere IDEA of technology and evolution being important in the game, the though of playing a game with history, technology, new industries etc., BUT as with some girlfriends/boyfriends, you think you like it, the relationship is working, happily married, no worries - UNTILL you take a step back and really ask yourself: What is this actually giving me? And the answer is ZIP.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gary Pressler
United States
West Lafayette
Indiana
flag msg tools
designer
OMG! Overtext! How long have I been sleeping?! OVERTEXT! Also, I'm a DESIGNER now?! Sweet! OVERTEXXXXXXT!
badge
HO HO HO! Give me some money!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Ah, okay. Glad to hear that is the case. You may want to consider editing the line in which you explain why your rating dropped. At least a few of us mis-read "my imagination and subconscious hope" to mean that you had not yet played the game before giving it an 8.

Like I said, other than this, I thought it was a good and helpful review.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sami Nurmela
Finland
Turku
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I must say I had a similar disappointed feeling with Industria. The theme of developing industry and tech trees is great. But it felt very lightly applied during play. That's not to say it's a bad game in itself, but the name and theme (and the fat box) just promised something grander.

Maybe a game dealing with industry and technology should inherently be complex.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeremy Carlson
United States
Wheaton
Illinois
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I am indeed glad to read that you played before the initial rating, cause I was one of the confused. I own the German version, but I bought it AFTER I had played a demo of it at Origins a couple years ago. I think it would have been better if you read the description here at BGG instead:

Quote:

You play chronologically in 5 time periods with specific industries and technologies. It is bidding game.


That is a little piece of it, but the part I made bold, is what I think the key is.

I think what you experienced with this game is what happened to me with the movie The Fountain. What the trailer showed me, and what the actual movie is really about are two TOTALLY different things.

Sucks when you go into something, like you did with Industria, with certain expectations, and it doesn't live up.

I had the benefit of the Rio Grande guy starting off by describing it as an auction/bidding game, NOT a tech game. The tech part was just a built on theme.

I wonder, if the theme was removed...would you still rate it a 3?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Thor Egil Braadland
Norway
Oslo
flag msg tools
Thor Egil Braadland, Oslo
badge
Thor Egil Braadland, Oslo
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Gary wrote:

Quote:
You may want to consider editing the line in which you explain why your rating dropped.


Thanks, Gary, I've added the clarification.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Thor Egil Braadland
Norway
Oslo
flag msg tools
Thor Egil Braadland, Oslo
badge
Thor Egil Braadland, Oslo
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hugthehand wrote:

Quote:
I wonder, if the theme was removed...would you still rate it a 3?



Good question. Perhaps with another theme, I would rate it higher...? I underline to those of you looking for bidding games, it's worth trying. I'm not a specialist on bidding games (enjoy Amun Re though), but I find the bidding / auctioning technique in this game highly fascinating.

And, yes: In retrospective, I admit it could look like I rate the game five for the auction mechanism, and minus two for the disappointment of the mismatch between theme/idea and what the game actually contains...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John Roach
United Kingdom
Ellesmere Port
Cheshire
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
This is such a crass heading. To apply this comment to industria you should at least state that inmunerable other boardgames would also fail your test.

It is a boardgame folks. It is a game , it has a board. If the board was removed the designer would have to contrive something to replicate a board to indicate the connections between factories and technologies, resources available in eras, scoring track etc.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Thor Egil Braadland
Norway
Oslo
flag msg tools
Thor Egil Braadland, Oslo
badge
Thor Egil Braadland, Oslo
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
It would suffice with cards, marked with which other cards they go along with.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Williams
United States
Chapel Hill
North Carolina
flag msg tools
mbmb
Hotntot wrote:
It would suffice with cards, marked with which other cards they go along with.


Maybe, but, as mentioned, there are other "board games" in which the board could easily be replaced by cards. The grandstanding title is misleading.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.