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Arkham Horror: The Card Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: Attack of Opportunity - something is unclear to us rss

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Peter Abernathy
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Hello

After playing our first introduction game, we encountered a rules problem regarding Attacks of Opportunity, as well as one other smaller problem.

Regarding the Attacks of Opportunity, we had the following question:

The rules say that any action other than Fight, Evade, Parley, or Resign triggers an attack of opportunity from the enemies you are engaged with. So the "Activate" action should trigger one as well. Now on most weapons there is an Arrow icon, which indicates it's an Activate ability. For example:

--> Spend 1 ammo: FIGHT you get +1 fist for this attack. This attack deals +1 damage.

It seems weird you would also elicit an attack of opportunity by using a knife, or gun, but the rules seem to indicate you should. What's your take on this?

We also had a small second question:

Sometimes the game instructs us to "search the encounter deck and encounter discard pile for a Ghoul enemy". Which pile should we search first? If we look in the encounter deck first, the situation becdomes worse for us, because the worse cards stay left behind in the encounter deck.
 
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Daily Grind
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The FIGHT text on the weapon indicates that the action is considered a fight and does not trigger the attack of opportunity.

I would search the decks in the order listed.
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Peter Abernathy
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cafin8d wrote:
The FIGHT text on the weapon indicates that the action is considered a fight and does not trigger the attack of opportunity.

I would search the decks in the order listed.


Thank you. I'm wondering, wouldn't the bold Arrow indicate you're doing an activate ability first, and only after that it changes into fight? I tried to search the rules, but couldn't find anything that supports not doing an attack of opportunity. Your answer does seem the most logical one, but I'm not sure the rulebook agrees.
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Matthew Speth
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from rule book:

Action Designators
Some abilities have bold action designators (such as Fight, Evade, Investigate, or Move). Activating such an ability performs the designated action as described in the rules, but modified in the manner described by the ability.

Thats as close as I can find. I can see how it is a touch ambiguous if you read it as activate ability and THEN do a fight, but it is meant to simply be a modified fight action so there is no attack of opportunity.

edited to add:

It just dawned on me, your reading of activating an ability would make parley and resign as being exceptions to an act of opportunity pointless, because (so far) all cases of parley and resign have a bold action arrow in front of them. So you would always take the AoO anyway.

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Eric Christensen
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I agree with the post above. Think of it thematically. The game wants you to address the enemy in front of you immediately by either fighting, evading, parleying or running away from the scenario. It doesn't want you to merely move to a more beneficial location with allies there to gang up on the enemy and the enemy just has to follow along. So you have to fight it or evade it. The evade action is like a dexterous escape that took a skill to execute, so the enemy has wasted its chance to attack you.
 
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MrPeterAbernathy wrote:
cafin8d wrote:
The FIGHT text on the weapon indicates that the action is considered a fight and does not trigger the attack of opportunity.

I would search the decks in the order listed.


Thank you. I'm wondering, wouldn't the bold Arrow indicate you're doing an activate ability first, and only after that it changes into fight? I tried to search the rules, but couldn't find anything that supports not doing an attack of opportunity. Your answer does seem the most logical one, but I'm not sure the rulebook agrees.


No, the rulebook agrees. Check the section on Action Designators on p. 3 again.

If the action says Fight, you are performing a Fight action. No AOO. If the action says Evade, you are performing an Evade action. No AOO. And on down the line. It's not trying to be difficult.
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Peter Abernathy
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Thank you to all people for providing such clear answers. Glad to hear the Grim Rule isn't Always the answer.
 
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Evan Sparks
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I suspect you are overthinking it.

AOO trigger when: "an action other than to fight, to evade, or to activate a parley or resign ability ... An attack of opportunity is made immediately after all costs of initiating the action that provoked the attack have been paid, but before the application of that action's effect on the game state."

On activating the card it "performs the designated action as described in the rules, but modified in the manner described by the ability."

So first you pay the cost to initiate the action on the card, in this case FIGHT. Next you do the check to see if it triggers an AOO - since the action we have initiated is a FIGHT, it doesn't. Finally you resolve the action's effect on the game state (drawing tokens/doing damage).

If that doesn't help, here is the official stance:

Quote:
The intent of the “Action designators” is to make a normal Activate action count and act as an action of another type. For example, if I activate the ability on my .45 Automatic and it says “Fight,” it counts as a Fight action, and follows all of the rules of a normal Fight action, except modified by the ability of the .45 Automatic (in this case, +1 combat and +1 damage). All other consequences or additional rules that stem from Fight actions apply, which includes it not provoking attacks of opportunity.

“Taking an action to do X” is the same as saying “Taking an action to perform X action type,” as in, taking an action to fight, or taking an action to evade. In this case, using the ability on the .45 Automatic counts as taking an action to fight, because of the Fight designator.

Hope that helps. Happy monster hunting!

------------------------------------------------
Matthew Newman
Associate LCG Designer
Fantasy Flight Games

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Jimmy Pattaya
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But let's say I play a Knife from my hand which has the "Fight" designation. Would this trigger an Attack of Opportunity? I think so, but I'd like to make sure?

After the Knife is in your play area, then I understand there is no AOO when I use it to fight an enemy.
 
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Chris McDonald
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Esto wrote:
But let's say I play a Knife from my hand which has the "Fight" designation. Would this trigger an Attack of Opportunity? I think so, but I'd like to make sure?

After the Knife is in your play area, then I understand there is no AOO when I use it to fight an enemy.


Yes, it will. Playing the card is not a Fight action.
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Jeffrey
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Esto wrote:
But let's say I play a Knife from my hand which has the "Fight" designation. Would this trigger an Attack of Opportunity? I think so, but I'd like to make sure?

After the Knife is in your play area, then I understand there is no AOO when I use it to fight an enemy.


Yes - playing the knife would trigger an AOO because it is a PLAY action.
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Eric Christensen
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You are correct. Playing the Knife card would be the Play Action which would trigger the AoO.
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Evan Sparks
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Esto wrote:
But let's say I play a Knife from my hand which has the "Fight" designation. Would this trigger an Attack of Opportunity? I think so, but I'd like to make sure?

After the Knife is in your play area, then I understand there is no AOO when I use it to fight an enemy.


Correct. The card itself does not have the FIGHT designation or otherwise qualify as a FIGHT action (this could be different for an EVENT card that causes a FIGHT action)
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MC Shudde M'ell
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mr_appleby wrote:
Esto wrote:
But let's say I play a Knife from my hand which has the "Fight" designation. Would this trigger an Attack of Opportunity? I think so, but I'd like to make sure?

After the Knife is in your play area, then I understand there is no AOO when I use it to fight an enemy.


Correct. The card itself does not have the FIGHT designation or otherwise qualify as a FIGHT action (this could be different for an EVENT card that causes a FIGHT action)


It does have the bold Fight designation for the Knufe's attack, it's just that that has nothing to do with putting the knife in your hand (since, as you say, there is no Event).
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Evan Sparks
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Esgaldil wrote:
mr_appleby wrote:
Esto wrote:
But let's say I play a Knife from my hand which has the "Fight" designation. Would this trigger an Attack of Opportunity? I think so, but I'd like to make sure?

After the Knife is in your play area, then I understand there is no AOO when I use it to fight an enemy.


Correct. The card itself does not have the FIGHT designation or otherwise qualify as a FIGHT action (this could be different for an EVENT card that causes a FIGHT action)


It does have the bold Fight designation for the Knufe's attack, it's just that that has nothing to do with putting the knife in your hand (since, as you say, there is no Event).


Yes, sorry, I meant that while the performable action has that designation, playing the card into your hand does not.
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Cameron Cook
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Having spawned a similar discussion in an earlier post, here is what we confirmed for attacks of opportunity:

Page 5 of the rules reference, under Attack of Opportunity states: "Each time an investigator is engaged with one or more ready enemies and takes an action other than to fight, to evade, or to activate a parley or resign ability, each of those enemies makes an attack of opportunity against the investigator..."

The optimal word being "to". Essentially, we came to the conclusion that any action (Play, Fight, Activate a Card, etc) would not trigger an attack of opportunity as long as it immediately resulted in a Fight, Evade, Parley, or Resign ability.

A couple of examples:

1) Choosing to take a FIGHT Action would NOT trigger an attack of opportunity. (Because the action is a FIGHT action)

2) Taking an ACTIVATE action to activate the card action on the .45 Automatic would NOT trigger an attack of opportunity. (Because the action directly triggers a fight action)

3) Taking a PLAY action to put the event Blinding Light into play would NOT trigger an attack of opportunity. (Because the action directly triggers an evade action)

4) Taking an INVESTIGATE action WOULD trigger an attack of opporunity.
(Because it does not directly trigger a FIGHT, PARLEY, EVADE, OR RESIGN action)

5) Taking a PLAY action to bring an .45 Automatic into play WOULD trigger an attack of opportunity. (Because the action taken does not trigger a fight action, but would required an ACTIVATE action to trigger the FIGHT action to take place).

EDIT: Spelling
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Scott Dockery
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MrPeterAbernathy wrote:
Sometimes the game instructs us to "search the encounter deck and encounter discard pile for a Ghoul enemy". Which pile should we search first? If we look in the encounter deck first, the situation becdomes worse for us, because the worse cards stay left behind in the encounter deck.


Since everyone seems to have overlooked this, you search both decks simultaneously and pick whichever Ghoul you want.
 
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Andrew Burns
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Esto wrote:
But let's say I play a Knife from my hand which has the "Fight" designation. Would this trigger an Attack of Opportunity? I think so, but I'd like to make sure?

After the Knife is in your play area, then I understand there is no AoO when I use it to fight an enemy.


As others have noted, yes, this would cause an attack of opportunity. It might be worth noting the Switchblade, which is Fast, and therefore playing it from your hand to your play area would not cause and attack of opportunity
 
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Akaan Qualrus
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fazicar wrote:
Having spawned a similar discussion in an earlier post, here is what we confirmed for attacks of opportunity:

Page 5 of the rules reference, under Attack of Opportunity states: "Each time an investigator is engaged with one or more ready enemies and takes an action other than to fight, to evade, or to activate a parley or resign ability, each of those enemies makes an attack of opportunity against the investigator..."

The optimal word being "to". Essentially, we came to the conclusion that any action (Play, Fight, Activate a Card, etc) would not trigger an attack of opportunity as long as it immediately resulted in a Fight, Evade, Parley, or Resign ability.

A couple of examples:

1) Choosing to take a FIGHT Action would NOT trigger an attack of opportunity. (Because the action is a FIGHT action)

2) Taking an ACTIVATE action to activate the card action on the .45 Automatic would NOT trigger an attack of opportunity. (Because the action directly triggers a fight action)

3) Taking a PLAY action to put the event Blinding Light into play would NOT trigger an attack of opportunity. (Because the action directly triggers an evade action)

4) Taking an INVESTIGATE action WOULD trigger an attack of opporunity.
(Because it does not directly trigger a FIGHT, PARLEY, EVADE, OR RESIGN action)

5) Taking a PLAY action to bring an .45 Automatic into play WOULD trigger an attack of opportunity. (Because the action taken does not trigger a fight action, but would required an ACTIVATE action to trigger the FIGHT action to take place).

EDIT: Spelling


I would add :

6) Playing Mind Over Matter WOULD NOT trigger an attack of opportunity because it has the "Fast" keyword (it does not cosy an action to play)
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