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Subject: Battlelore - The Good. The Bad. The Verdict. rss

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Nicholas
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EventHorizon wrote:
Oh, and I've asked 3 or 4 people if they can figure out what you mean by stating that there is a difference between defining strategic objectives and planning and no one can figure it out.
I really hate to defend the guy, but...

Here's how I understood it:

Defining a strategic objective is setting a goal - I'm going to take that hill on the left.
Planning is how you are going to take the hill.

Deciding that you want to take the hill is smart, but due to the card mechanics in BL, planning how you are going to do it is useless.

They are both strategic (BGG) or tactical (military) decisions. In my opinion, most of the hole Roberto has dug himself into is from his wildly varying definitions of strategy and tactics, not the concept he is trying to express.
 
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J Mathews
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Agreed. Drawing those lines makes some sense. Frankly, I think that both the defining of the strategic objectives and the detailed planning on how to accomplish them are both aspects of strategy and I haven't seen any definition posted that contradicts that. As I said above, I am not trying to say that BL is a strategic game, I'm trying to say that it has some strategic aspects to it.

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Deciding that you want to take the hill is smart, but due to the card mechanics in BL, planning how you are going to do it is useless.
This is the issue I have. If taking a hill is vital to my plan, I am going plan 2 or 3 ways to take the hill. I may only have cards for Plan C, but it will get taken. Or I will work on some other aspect or some other part of the board until I get the cards necessary to do that part of the plan. In my mind, the plan is not card-dependant, the timing is. But that doesn't mean I'm not following my plan. It's like Magic (which was brought up as having both strategic and tactical aspects), I can build my deck with combos, but the timing of when I can pull those combos is card-dependant. The combos are still going to happen though.

BattleLore is like playing a pre-con Magic deck. Sure pre-con decks have less strategy than constructing your deck, but you still have to go through the deck and figure out what's in there and how it's going to work together, make an overall battle plan, before you play. Purely tactical Magic would be to have someone give you a deck and you shuffle and play without looking through it at all. There is no way to plan in that case and so you are forced to play tactically without building to anything.
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Roberto Arbelaez
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Ansbach wrote:
In my opinion, most of the hole Roberto has dug himself into is from his wildly varying definitions of strategy and tactics, not the concept he is trying to express.
Hole?

I have pretty solid arguments, clearly expressed from the beginning.

Wildly Varying definitions?

I've been nothing but coherent in the definitions I use.

The only wildly varying thing I find is the reading comprehension abilities on some of the posters in this forum. The only holes i see are in your interpretation.

 
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J Mathews
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And in mine, most likely, because I agree with him.
 
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Kevin Smith
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I think the proverbial horse has been beaten to death.

Strategic - Please bury the horse. Here's both a shovel and a pickax.

Tactical - You can decide how to use each one when you actually do it.



Kevin
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Roland Wood
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How dare you call Carcassonne purely tactical. I use strategy all the time in that game....zombie
 
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Chris Montgomery
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Joliet
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I think the debate about tactics vs. strategy is pretty much over.

However, if we can change the dialogue--does BL allow a player to create and successfully execute a plan for the battle? Absolutely. How far ahead you can plan does depend on the cards you get, but players who don't plan, lose.

I think the game is especially cool--I like the "Geez! I wish I could move HIM" aspect of the game. I just think to myself, this is how a general must have felt when he couldn't get orders to that one unit he needed to rebuff a flank attack, or whatever...

At any rate, I love the game, and I like the way the game system works.
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