Recommend
4 
 Thumb up
 Hide
13 Posts

Mythic Battles: Pantheon» Forums » General

Subject: About Penthesilea: does charisma stack with bolster? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Willem Verheij
msg tools
mbmb
Penthesilea is a hero of who I am really having my doubts about her usefullness.

She costs three recruitment points, brings two art of war cards and four activation cards. So far so good.

She has the bolster and leader ability, not bad, seems she is meant to lead troops. Bolster gives +1 attack and +1 defence for troops in her area, and leader allows a troop to attack for free with her activation.

But her charisma ability gives friendly troops in her area and adjacent areas +1 attack, +1 defence and +1 move during their activations.

If this stacks with bolster that would make her very usefull for troops and would offset her own mediocre stats of 6 attack and 7 defence for a frontline fighter. And only six hitpoints too.

But if it does not stack, it would make her quite useless since then she'd have two abilities that pretty much do the same thing.

She also only has a movement of one, which I can understand since she'd pop out of her top when moving faster, but just give her a higher top and then she could have a movement of two which seems more fitting for an amazon warrior and daughter of Ares.

I am not even sure why she even has the climb ability. She has no ranged attack and with a movement of one she can't get much use out of it either.

The mourn token seems pretty usefull, but that only kicks in when she dies and only lasts one turn.

So my thoughts on her is that bolster and charisma should add up to each other and that she could use a movement of two.

She's a daughter of Ares, the god of war. That should cause people to worry at least a little bit when seeing her arrive on a battlefield.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ben Clapperton
United Kingdom
Hebburn
Tyne & Wear
flag msg tools
mbmb
My understanding of range in MB is not that units either have melee or ranged attacks (in the way that it would be in something like Warhammer), but rather that when a unit attacks at Range 0 it is making a melee attack, and when it attacks at Range 1 or more it is making a ranged attack. A unit with Range 1 that attacks a unit in the same zone as it, is making a melee attack. It doesn't matter that they can make ranged attacks. Likewise, a unit with Range 0 that gets +1 range and uses it to attack a unit in another zone is making a ranged attack. The exception stated in the rules is when the unit cannot enter a zone because it is full then it gains +1 to its range but is still considered to be making a melee attack.

If that is wrong then please correct me (Benoit). If it's right then climbing a hill will give Penthesilea Range 1.

The rules state that if multiple bonuses to a stat are provided by different talents and/or powers then only the highest would apply. That would mean Bolster and Charisma do not stack, but they also don't work in the same way. Bolster only works when the troop is in the same zone as Penthesilea, but it is always on. Charisma requires them to have activated, but they retain the buff to Attack and Defence, and get an additional movement, when they leave Penthesilea's zone. Add Leadership to that and you have a unit which works very well with troops.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Thaddeus MacTaggart
Netherlands
Almere Buiten
Flevoland
flag msg tools
badge
Blood Rage fan - Raven Clan
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Agreed.

As a primary Troops booster, you can best compare her with Leonidas.
They are both 6/7, 1 movement and 6 vitality, 3RP, 4 Activations and 2 AoW.

Bolster and Charisma don't stack; you can only boost a stat once. Hence they overlap a lot. But that is also true for Leonidas' Born Leader.
The 2 passive talents always work though, the individual powers only when they are activated.

She has climb where Leonidas has Phalanx. Making Leonidas stronger. Also, Leonidas special skill makes all Troop units in and adjacent to his area Guard him, making him far more survivable.
Not sure where Penthesilea needs Climb for as hardly any Troops have it. Perhaps, as Ben said, to give her range 1?
Leonidas starts off range 1, Penthesilea with range 0.

- Leonidas basically has Leader and Bolster with a range of 1 (so including adjacent areas). So he can search for a Troop card, activate and boost +1/+1 for the rest of the turn.
- Penthesilea doesn't have an adjacent Leader skill but she boosts for and additional +1 movement as well. Although she can't run with them as she only has 1 speed.
If you want to use it on an adjacent Troops though, you will have to have an Activation card in your hand, where Leonidas can search for one for free, which is far more card efficient.

In comparison, Penthesilea has less consequent and coherent skills.
She has a lot of boosts for adjacent Troops but can't draw a card for them. She gives speed but can't run with them. She Climb but hardly any troops can Climb with her to make use of all the passive boosts.

I find her a bit of a subpar hero.
Her only added value is +1 movement, for the rest all her abilities are inferior to Leonidas'. I'd pick her sister over her any time :-)
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Willem Verheij
msg tools
mbmb
Oh I had not noticed the comparisons with Leonidas yet, that actually makes her even worse since there is someone else who clearly is a better version of her. There seems to be no reason to pick her when Leonidas is available.

3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Constantine Christodoulou
Greece
Agia Paraskevi
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Should they lower her price then, to make her more appealing?
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Thaddeus MacTaggart
Netherlands
Almere Buiten
Flevoland
flag msg tools
badge
Blood Rage fan - Raven Clan
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
bubblewrap wrote:
Should they lower her price then, to make her more appealing?

2RP would be rather drastic, to be honest

Suggestion: give her Phalanx (instead of Climb) and 2 movement so she can roam around the map with her troops, preferably with +1 range as well.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Willem Verheij
msg tools
mbmb
I don't think her price should be lowered, she just needs to be slightly changed to be a little more usefull.

Her charisma ability could be a full passive for example, providing +1 attack, defence and movement for all troops in her area and adjacent areas. Like an improved version of bolster. Then she'd truly bring something unique to the table and I think it is fitting that the daughter of Ares would push surrounding soldiers to fight harder.

Her bolster talent could then be replaced with Phalanx, and she could get a movement of 2 to allow her to keep up with the troops.

2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Aditya C
United States
Indiana
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
She seems more like a situational counterpick for heavy AoE hitters.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
the Florian Trout
United States
Arvada
CO
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
Rhalius wrote:

But if it does not stack, it would make her quite useless since then she'd have two abilities that pretty much do the same thing.

She also only has a movement of one, which I can understand since she'd pop out of her top when moving faster, but just give her a higher top and then she could have a movement of two which seems more fitting for an amazon warrior and daughter of Ares.

that was funny...and true. thanks.

i'd say they do stack (i mean Bolster & Charisma stack)....or they will in my games.

it's only when the unit is activated that they get the additional bonus for Charisma. so the only time they get it pretty much is for attacking (unless they're retaliated upon).
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Willem Verheij
msg tools
mbmb
I'd really like to hear Benoit's thoughts on her though.

Just seems she is one of those units that needs a little tweaking.
Another one that comes to mind is Talos, who is too good for a 4 pointer and should be boosted to 5 points.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Abe
United States
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Rhalius wrote:
I'd really like to hear Benoit's thoughts on her though.

Just seems she is one of those units that needs a little tweaking.
Another one that comes to mind is Talos, who is too good for a 4 pointer and should be boosted to 5 points.


I'm almost certain Talos' area attack is worded incorrectly and should be the same as Heracles' "Heraclean Strength", meaning one area attack at range 3 instead of everything within 3 spaces.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Willem Verheij
msg tools
mbmb
Perhaps yes, that could work too. Either way I do think it's important that the RP cost matches units and that there is a valid reason to recruit any of them.

Right now Penthesilea is sadly someone who almost seems more usefull dead than alive. The mourn token is good, but she should be better in life.

Seeing how she is the daughter of Ares and an Amazon, she seems like 4 RP hero material. Same for Atalanta actually, who gets an even worse deal being just a 2 RP hero. With 1 movement despite being known for her speed.

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Aditya C
United States
Indiana
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Well the fact that she is better dead also matters. You're opponent isn't going to want to kill, especially with their heavy hitters. So she can be unusually aggressive and reckless against them, knowing that they are forced into making bad choices. Particularly in late game, where resources start drying out and leaving a unit completely vulnerable to destruction can be devastating.

So, while her abilities don't directly make her a beast at fighting, the mourning ability allows her to be a thematic version of her source material (a reckless warrior that charges into battle regardless of consequences).
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.