Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
9 Posts

Star Trek: Ascendancy» Forums » Variants

Subject: Winning the game - an additional condition should be met rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Leon Stansfield
Austria
Vienna
European Union
flag msg tools
badge
live every day as if it were your first
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Just spinning around here a little because I feel that the right behaviour of the individual races should be rewarded somehow. As suggested in other postings elsewhere I wonder if the winning conditions should be changed.

What if it is not enough to simply collect five Ascendancy tokens or take over two other Home Worlds? What if it is also necessary to „behave accordingly to his race“?

Perhaps something like that:
Each race starts with a D6. The side with the „1“ shows up. Each time that race „behave accordingly“ (get a „Racial Culture Bonus Token“) such as

• Federation finds a Civilization
• Klingons defeat an enemy Fleet
• Romulans develop an Advancement

you turn the D6 one step higher. Even if you have already received the fifth Ascendancy token you are not able to win the game unless your die shows the „6“. Or the other way around: You will loose your fifth Ascendancy token in the Check for Victory-phase if your die shows the „5“ or a lower number at the same time.

Something like this… As I said before – just thinking of possibilities to improve the end game.

(In this case I count on Zenvious and his countless ideas to adapt the game! whistle)

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Zenjoy
Australia
Perth
Western Australia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
jumpwalker wrote:
Just spinning around here a little because I feel that the right behaviour of the individual races should be rewarded somehow. As suggested in other postings elsewhere I wonder if the winning conditions should be changed.

What if it is not enough to simply collect five Ascendancy tokens or take over two other Home Worlds? What if it is also necessary to „behave accordingly to his race“?

Perhaps something like that:
Each race starts with a D6. The side with the „1“ shows up. Each time that race „behave accordingly“ (get a „Racial Culture Bonus Token“) such as

• Federation finds a Civilization
• Klingons defeat an enemy Fleet
• Romulans develop an Advancement

you turn the D6 one step higher. Even if you have already received the fifth Ascendancy token you are not able to win the game unless your die shows the „6“. Or the other way around: You will loose your fifth Ascendancy token in the Check for Victory-phase if your die shows the „5“ or a lower number at the same time.

Something like this… As I said before – just thinking of possibilities to improve the end game.

(In this case I count on Zenvious and his countless ideas to adapt the game! :whistle:)



I HEARD A WHISTLE! WHERE IS IT? WHERE'S THE MOD? WHERE'S THE MOD? WHOSE A GOOD BOY WHO WANTS THE MOD!? I WANT THE MOD!! (*pant pant pant*)

Ask and ye shall recieve! I do seem to be haunting these forums a bit for inspiration and news :D

So lets see.

First up, interesting idea. Need to ask the "why?" though. Is the reason this was proposed because you felt the current Win Conditions were too easy? Or was there something else in mind?

I ask as I feel at their base design, the races DO play to their behavior. I.e.:

- The Federation want to explore and find new Phenomena and New Civilization (to boldy go where blah blah blah)
- The Klingon's want a decent fight and will charge any decently sized group of fleets (Kha Plah!!!)
- The Romulans want to research their stuff to have the best Technology in the game (... umm... logic? I don't know the Romulans that well! Sorry!)
- The Cardassians want to subjegate the Quadrant and see no reason why everyone thinks this is bad (its their divine right by genetic superiority)
- The Ferengi want to make money (RULES OF AQUISITION FOR THE WIN!!)

If anything the stuff you are suggesting basically plays towards their basic racial gains I'd say. Hence why my thought was somewhat along the lines of encourage them to do that more (i.e.: +2 culture instead of +1 for those things).

You could work on the idea that you've suggested as another means of doing this, but you'd need check the federation on your suggested idea as Civilizations run out. Maybe instead the dice goes up each time they visit a new phenomena? A marker on each one to show they have seen it once. That gives some long game assurance.

Inevitably thats the best I can offer. Give me more info on what you're thinking and I'll do what I can to help build your mod up to what you'd like it to be :)
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Leon Stansfield
Austria
Vienna
European Union
flag msg tools
badge
live every day as if it were your first
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks for coming back that fast, Zenvious!

zfairborn wrote:
Hence why my thought was somewhat along the lines of encourage them to do that more (i.e.: +2 culture instead of +1 for those things).

That sentence inspired me to my reflections on „encourage the species to do more of racial stuff“. For me your idea with two Culture instead of one seemed to extensive in a way.

The more I think about it the more I believe a combination of both ideas seems possible. If a „race die“ reaches the „6“ it provides that race with an additional Culture token. The die then starts again with „1“ and so on… (in that case maybe a D4 would be more suitable) This is not so powerful than your suggestion but still rewards the „racial behaviour“ (Of course here goes the additional winning condition). Have to try this out asap...

Thanks again for your permanent input!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Zenjoy
Australia
Perth
Western Australia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I actually like that idea of it giving an extra Culture surge and using the lower number dice.

In that mechanic it does indeed become a mid ground of "Racially gain 4 Culture and get the 5th one free!!"

Its a nice pay off and, as the game stands currently (no mods) would work quite easily without straying too far from the base game.

You could even raise the bonus to +2 Culture, so that their 4th discovery its a long term investment for a big surge reward. And rarely have I noticed many of our games having the racial bonus come up a lot.

Glad to be of service! Do let us know how it plays out. I'm sure other people would be keen to find out :)
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rob D
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I've been giving this a lot of thought lately.

I could go into my philosophy of the game's mechanics, what works and what doesn't, but you've undoubtedly either heard it or said it all before.

Here's the core issue in a nutshell for me:

Each race starts with one Ascendancy. That's it.

You start the game with an Ascendancy that you haven't REALLY earned. You start the game not at the starting line of a 5-mile race, but at mile 1.

Now the reasons for that, by the reckoning of the rules, are simple. Starbases and Fleets. Your ability to produce them lines up with your Ascendancy at the time.

Of course, you could play with the "Humble Beginnings" advanced variant. In it, you start with NO resources and NO Ascendancy. I like that variant and would prefer to play with it. It provides the lesser aggressive races (Federation for example) a little more breathing room. It also engenders the need to develop a core set of planets to begin generating resources for you. It encourages exploration to try and find a Cultural planet.

However, I'd like to pose a variant of my own. Let's call it "Cause and Effect" (after one of my favorite TNG episodes).

Cause and Effect

Since you have been given One Ascendancy to begin the game, you must prove your worthiness to the galaxy in order to proceed any further.

In order to acquire your SECOND Ascendancy token, you must have EACH of the following at the end of your turn:

1. 5 Culture tokens
2. One Fleet on the board (size of fleet does not matter)
3. One Starbase of your own construction under your control(cannot be one that you've acquired through Invasion or Hegemony)
4. One completed Research for your own Race (not including your Starting Advancement, cannot be a Rival Advancement you've acquired through Invasion)

After you've achieved your Second Ascendancy, proceed as normal until you've acquired your 4th Ascendancy token.

Then, in order to achieve your Final Ascendancy, and PROVE your dominance to the galaxy, you must have 5 Culture tokens, and at LEAST 2 of the following conditions:

1. Two Fleets on the board (size of fleet does not matter)
2. Two Starbases (may be EITHER of your own construction or ones you have acquired through Invasion or Hegemony, in any combination).
3. Two completed Research advancements (not including your Starting Advancement; may be either of your own race or those of rivals, in any combination)

What I hope this has done is set up two artificial thresholds that ENCOURAGE contact and interaction both in the beginning and end stages of the game.

For example, it may make the Klingons that much MORE aggressive, as they may attempt to Invade a colony so as to steal an advancement to prevent the Romulans from satisfying that requirement in order to achieve Ascendancy.

Late in the game, the interaction is obvious. It further encourages interaction and dealmaking in order to prevent one from satisfying the win conditions.

Example: The Federation has 4 Ascendancy and is about to win. The Klingons and Romulans decide to team up. The Klingons say they will attempt to take out a Federation fleet, while the Romulans indicate they will try to steal an Advancement through Invasion, with the intent that at least ONE of them will be successful.

In addition, it could make Trade Agreements become that much MORE interesting and valuable.

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Leon Stansfield
Austria
Vienna
European Union
flag msg tools
badge
live every day as if it were your first
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I very much like the idea that you have to prove your dominance over the galaxy! But I hesitate to change so much at the core of the game. If a race is forced to fulfill three (in the endgame) or even four hurdles (to acquire their second Ascendancy) that can be an additional disadvantage for races which are already disadvantaged by bad luck. This restriction can punish races twice if they are unfortunate in discovering new planetary systems at the very beginning of a game session. During the endgame this should not really be a big deal anymore.

An endgame with more victory conditions than “just” five Ascendancy tokens sounds very promising indeed. This would increase the interaction for sure. I can see your point, Rob.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rob D
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks, Leon.

It would only really be two conditions at the end of the game (in addition to the five culture tokens - so ok, three).

It definitely could use some tweaking, for sure.

As far as the luck issue, I really think this could help mitigate that in some respect.

If I'm using this system, and I'm in third place burdened by bad luck, I'm striking deals with the second place player, carrying out guerilla strikes to prevent the first player from reaching their threshold.

Then when player 2 gets close, I'm striking the same deals. It's the same as the base game rules, except I now have more avenues with which to strike.


All the while, I'm slowly climbing back into the game.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Guðmundur Skallagrímson
Canada
flag msg tools
mb
jumpwalker wrote:
An endgame with more victory conditions than “just” five Ascendancy tokens sounds very promising indeed. This would increase the interaction for sure. I can see your point, Rob.

Why not leave the requirements the way they are, but assign points for your other 'victory conditions'. Depending how you work the numbers, you might end up winning Ascendancy, but losing the game if you don't have your ships/fleets/advancements all figured out. Doesn't slow the gain of Ascendancy down, but adds that extra push to do other things... maybe.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Maldus Alver

Washington
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I think the culture bonus works for the theme but to be honest it is hard to come up with a victory theme for Star Trek as it doesn't really have any victory scenes like Star Wars had (i.e. blow up the death star, destroy the Jedi Council, kill the emperor, take over the Senate).

I know in Star Wars Rebellion the Rebel victory condition seems for the most part lacking in theme. I know some described it as a point of no return where more and more systems would start to rebel that the Empire can not regain control and not a total victory, but again I would rather have Rebels invade Corescuant or Destroy a Death Star instead. I know those could be Rebel Missions but I think it would have been better as a Rebel Victory Condition instead of just a lvl III card.

Back to Ascendancy and Star Trek, well to be honest Ascendancy doesn't follow the core theme of Star Trek. When you look at good guy "Federation" victories in Star Trek it is like some major peace deal or overcoming some phenomenon/entity that has the potential to destroy Earth (or the Galaxy with Earth in it). Ascendancy takes a look at more of the harshest Criticism of the Federation as some giant socialistic entity that wants to collectively "assimilate" all other sentient races. Ascendancy is more of a Power Struggle it is not a Explore strange new civilizations by boldly going where no one has gone before. So to have a more thematic victory condition for Ascendancy doesn't seem that practical. Sure a resource rush for the last victory token might seem a little cheap (especially when some one is one turn away and you can't stop them), but IMHO it is better than the LotR ring timer that Rebellion has.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.