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Subject: How do this game compares to Sentinels of the Multiverse? rss

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François + Daphné
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I already own Sentinels of the Multiverse and many of its expansions, and I like it quite a bit, but I do not play it very often because of the general fidliness of the gameplay.

Do you think that Aeon's End plays smoother? Is it as fun as Sentinels? Better? Do you think that owning both is not necessary?

I am really curious to read your opinions about all that, particularly since the game seems fun and is talked about everywhere I go on BGG.

And, by the way, is it very difficult to win?

D.
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Comboteur "Crazed 'Beastface' Survivor" Fou
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Aeon's End adresses everything wrong with Sentinels of the Multiverse in my opinion.

You don't get screwed right from the start because the Nemesis cards are divided by tiers. It takes a while to get to the more powerful cards, so whatever happens, you don't get crushed in three turns because of bad luck.

You also get to choose what cards you can have access to thanks to the market setup (similar to Dominion). You can decide what you will be able to buy, which lets you try different strategies against the Nemesis you've chosen as a foe. You also never shuffle your deck, so you are not luck-dependant. The only unkown factor is: whose turn will it be next, and what card will the Nemesis draw. Other than that, you have complete control over what's happening.

Most of the Nemesis powers take one turn to activate. The way it works is:
- Trigger powers
- Draw a card and apply when specified
- End turn.

Some cards are minions which have triggered abilities, but not on the same turn they are revealed, other are power card, which have a countdown before they are triggered (it takes between 1-3 Nemesis turn before they activate) so you have time to prepare, plus you can discard them if you meet the requirements (such as discarding X gem cards or paying X Aether - the money in this game).

Overall, the game works much better than Sentinels of the Multiverse, it is much easier to keep track of what's happening because you only 1-4 characters, Gravehold, the Nemesis and some minions to take care of, and you're garanteed to have a fair share of turns you can play before losing.

You also win if you survive all of the Nemesis cards, and its deck runs out while none of its cards are in play, which makes it more than just a damage race, as opposed to too many Villains in SotM (IMO at least.)

You should definitely try it out, it's worth it, even if you have SotM. If also really plays out differently, as the characters are not as unique as the SotM heroes, but still different enough to play with that it's interesting to try them all out. I know I love how Brama is a master healer while Jian can become a beast that deals tons of damage each turn.

That, and the theme could help people who are reluctant to play a superhero game to get into a game session.
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Joshua Davis
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I love the story of Sentinels and when the rpg comes out I will play that a lot, but the actually card game has become a chore that I only slightly enjoy at this point for me.

Aeon's End may have finally fired SotM for me. Not sure yet.

In addition to the above posters points :

The bad guys turns are really simple. There no activate at the beginning, activate at the end, activate when someone sneezes. Everything is clean, activated at the beginning of the turn before you draw the next card.

There are no endless buffs/debuffs. You don't have to do mental math just to figure out damage.

Each bad guy forces you to play in a radically different way.

There is more player interaction, but still less than other co-ops.

But it still has all the positives of Sentinels (although it does not have the goofyness). Although the theme is kind of generic, the writing and mechanical integration really pull you in. You really feel like at first you are vastly overpowered, but you are eventually going to get strong enough to hold your own against the bad guy.
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Drake Depew
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First the problems

1) Aeon's end takes up too much table space. Each player will have a player board and up to 6 different card placement areas in front of themselves (draw pile, discard pile and 4 spells). In addition the central area takes up a huge amount of table space: there are 9 areas for the card market, and up to 5 additional card stacks (turn order and turn order discard pile, boss deck and boss deck discard, additional potential level 0 boss deck), and then as the boss activates even more cards may end up in play.

2) the game takes too long to set up. You have to construct each players individualized deck. There are not enough cards to presort each individual deck, nor are there enough cards to presort the boss decks. additionally the boss deck has to be sorted and randomized into 3 piles which also need to be shuffled.

3) The art and the Theme are a bit dark and uninspiring. It's all perfectly serviceable, but I really would have preferred a more unique theme. It's sort of a fantasy post apocalypse thing (think of thunderstone mixed with Pacific rim gone wrong).

All of these issues are common problems in the genre of games of this type. This game is considerably less fiddly than Sentinels of the Multiverse (there are essentially 3 kinds of tokens, two of which are more or less interchangeable as they are basically just counters and will never both be in the same place).

Otherwise the game is absolutely fantastic.
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Matt Simpson
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It plays fantastically with 2, which SoTM does not unless you play 2 each
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llyrghmnghyll wrote:
First the problems

1) Aeon's end takes up too much table space. Each player will have a player board and up to 6 different card placement areas in front of themselves (draw pile, discard pile and 4 spells). In addition the central area takes up a huge amount of table space: there are 9 areas for the card market, and up to 5 additional card stacks (turn order and turn order discard pile, boss deck and boss deck discard, additional potential level 0 boss deck), and then as the boss activates even more cards may end up in play.

2) the game takes too long to set up. You have to construct each players individualized deck. There are not enough cards to presort each individual deck, nor are there enough cards to presort the boss decks. additionally the boss deck has to be sorted and randomized into 3 piles which also need to be shuffled.

3) The art and the Theme are a bit dark and uninspiring. It's all perfectly serviceable, but I really would have preferred a more unique theme. It's sort of a fantasy post apocalypse thing (think of thunderstone mixed with Pacific rim gone wrong).

All of these issues are common problems in the genre of games of this type. This game is considerably less fiddly than Sentinels of the Multiverse (there are essentially 3 kinds of tokens, two of which are more or less interchangeable as they are basically just counters and will never both be in the same place).

Otherwise the game is absolutely fantastic.


It's true that the setup and breakdown time can be quite long.

As for the art, I personally love it. The monsters are pretty disturbing. I'm also glad they stayed away from the hyper realistic kind of artwork we see in plenty other games. I backed the game because the art stood out for me, and then fell in love with the rules and the feeling you have when you play it. So yup, art = big upside for me for this one.
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François + Daphné
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Thank you all for these interesting replies! They are quite enlightening.

As we play almost only with the two-player format, and because you say that it is less fiddly and kind of more efficient than the gameplay of SotM, I made the move and ordered the game this morning.

I am eager to discover it!

D.
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Travis R. Chance
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CloudBuilder wrote:
I love the story of Sentinels and when the rpg comes out I will play that a lot, but the actually card game has become a chore that I only slightly enjoy at this point for me.

Aeon's End may have finally fired SotM for me. Not sure yet.

In addition to the above posters points :

The bad guys turns are really. There no activate at the beginning, activate at the end, activate when someone sneezes. Everything is clean, activated at the beginning of the turn before you draw the next card.

There are no endless buffs/debuffs. You don't have to do mental math just to figure out damage.

Each bad guy forces you to play in a radically different way.

There is more player interaction, but still less than other co-ops.

But it still has all the positives of Sentinels (although it does not have the goofyness). Although the theme is kind of generic, the writing and mechanical integration really pull you in. You really feel like at first you are vastly overpowered, but you are eventually going to get strong enough to hold your own against the bad guy.


Thanks for sharing! Just curious, what about the theme is generic to you? I would say this is pretty atypical fantasy--no dragons, goblins, sword- wielding dungeoneers, no treasure seeking. It's basically post apoc Elder gods vs mages using portals as batteries/-in my opinion.

The bios and flavor text tell the story, for those inclined to read such things.

By no means am I offended; genuinely curious. A lot went into the world building, though I AM admittedly close to the project. Thanks so much!
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Jacob Black
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I've played a lot of SotM with my friend and I can say so far I enjoy Aeon's End more. Sentinels has a fun theme but some characters are flat out boring and others do a million things. This leads to some people having a 10 second long turn and others going for a few minutes. Compare Legacy to OmnitronX, Argent Adept, or The Sentinels. Aeon's End turns are quick and turn order is random. The challenge is in building a deck versus cycling to the right card combo. There's a lot less fiddling with modifiers and no damage types. Streamlined and fun. I'd say the setup time is the same between the two.
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Ben Rubinstein

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llyrghmnghyll wrote:
First the problems

1) Aeon's end takes up too much table space. Each player will have a player board and up to 6 different card placement areas in front of themselves (draw pile, discard pile and 4 spells). In addition the central area takes up a huge amount of table space: there are 9 areas for the card market, and up to 5 additional card stacks (turn order and turn order discard pile, boss deck and boss deck discard, additional potential level 0 boss deck), and then as the boss activates even more cards may end up in play.

2) the game takes too long to set up. You have to construct each players individualized deck. There are not enough cards to presort each individual deck, nor are there enough cards to presort the boss decks. additionally the boss deck has to be sorted and randomized into 3 piles which also need to be shuffled.

3) The art and the Theme are a bit dark and uninspiring. It's all perfectly serviceable, but I really would have preferred a more unique theme. It's sort of a fantasy post apocalypse thing (think of thunderstone mixed with Pacific rim gone wrong).

All of these issues are common problems in the genre of games of this type. This game is considerably less fiddly than Sentinels of the Multiverse (there are essentially 3 kinds of tokens, two of which are more or less interchangeable as they are basically just counters and will never both be in the same place).

Otherwise the game is absolutely fantastic.



I can kind of see 1 and 2, but 3 has me very confused. Not unique? It's strays pretty far from standard fantasy tropes. When you compare it to settings like Runebound, Andor, Myth etc, it's a pretty unique fantasy world.

As to the OP's question, I played SotM twice and didn't enjoy it. It was way too fiddly for me, the actual player powers weren't very interesting, and it didn't seem to require tons of high-level player cooperation. Aeon's End fixes all of those problems.
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I love SotM but this game is still a ton of fun. Setup is a bit of a bear if you do randomized setups. I imagine if you just pick what you want it would go faster or if everyone at the table is helping it would go faster. On the theme, it seems pretty unique to me, generic? In what sense? I love it.
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Walter Hunt
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llyrghmnghyll wrote:
Fong to set up. You have to construct each players individualized deck. There are not enough cards to presort each individual deck, nor are there enough cards to presort the boss decks.


This is a problem that could be addressed if IBC would provide - perhaps through the BGG store? - about 20 Spark and 20 Crystal cards. I'd pay a few dollars to be able to set up all 12 hero decks in advance; I accept the need to build the Nemesis deck and the market each time, but since the starting cards for each hero are always the same, it would be better to have them preset to save time.

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Antonio Tang
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hotc wrote:
This is a problem that could be addressed if IBC would provide - perhaps through the BGG store? - about 20 Spark and 20 Crystal cards. I'd pay a few dollars to be able to set up all 12 hero decks in advance; I accept the need to build the Nemesis deck and the market each time, but since the starting cards for each hero are always the same, it would be better to have them preset to save time.

Oooh, depending on the price, I'd pay for that. Maybe $5-10?
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Bradford Lounsberry
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Yeah that would be a nice add-on for the BGG Store. Good idea.
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Michael Weber
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llyrghmnghyll wrote:


1) Aeon's end takes up too much table space. Each player will have a player board and up to 6 different card placement areas in front of themselves (draw pile, discard pile and 4 spells). In addition the central area takes up a huge amount of table space: there are 9 areas for the card market, and up to 5 additional card stacks (turn order and turn order discard pile, boss deck and boss deck discard, additional potential level 0 boss deck), and then as the boss activates even more cards may end up in play.

2) the game takes too long to set up. You have to construct each players individualized deck. There are not enough cards to presort each individual deck, nor are there enough cards to presort the boss decks. additionally the boss deck has to be sorted and randomized into 3 piles which also need to be shuffled.


I would not call the usage of tablespace in this game an issue. After all the player boards are rather small and basically gobble up the space in front of a player which the player would need anyway to play cards etc. The market does not take more room than say the market in Dominion, the other decks do not need that much room either. Granted it is certainly NOT a coffee table game but not the footprint is not that big that I would call it an issue in this case.

The setup time is no longer or shorter than your average fixed market deck builder. The character decks consist of ONE specific card plus a number of 2 types of starter cards - no big issue here. Have one player do the boss decks, another one the character decks and you'll actually be quite quick to setup. SO again, I would not call setup time a real issue here

In one point I certainly agree with you - it is a fantastic game!
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Mixo wrote:
llyrghmnghyll wrote:


1) Aeon's end takes up too much table space. Each player will have a player board and up to 6 different card placement areas in front of themselves (draw pile, discard pile and 4 spells). In addition the central area takes up a huge amount of table space: there are 9 areas for the card market, and up to 5 additional card stacks (turn order and turn order discard pile, boss deck and boss deck discard, additional potential level 0 boss deck), and then as the boss activates even more cards may end up in play.

2) the game takes too long to set up. You have to construct each players individualized deck. There are not enough cards to presort each individual deck, nor are there enough cards to presort the boss decks. additionally the boss deck has to be sorted and randomized into 3 piles which also need to be shuffled.


I would not call the usage of tablespace in this game an issue. After all the player boards are rather small and basically gobble up the space in front of a player which the player would need anyway to play cards etc. The market does not take more room than say the market in Dominion, the other decks do not need that much room either. Granted it is certainly NOT a coffee table game but not the footprint is not that big that I would call it an issue in this case.

The setup time is no longer or shorter than your average fixed market deck builder. The character decks consist of ONE specific card plus a number of 2 types of starter cards - no big issue here. Have one player do the boss decks, another one the character decks and you'll actually be quite quick to setup. SO again, I would not call setup time a real issue here

In one point I certainly agree with you - it is a fantastic game!


It doesn't take as much table space as SotM from what I've experienced. Especially if you play Vengeance or OblivAeon. I have the official SotM playmat and it's just WAY bigger than my table! I've had no problem playing with three mages on said table, though. So I don't think this is an issue either.

It's also much easier to tell decks and fields apart than in SotM, thanks to the characters boards. Granted, I mostly play SotM solo, but still, it's easy to become confused as to what's what. And don't even get me started on tracking and micromanagement! (I still love it though, and got destroyed by Omnitron II yesterday. Curse you, Absolute Zero! Curse you! Why do I love you so much?)
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Drake Depew
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My criticisms are of Aeon's end as a game, not in comparison to other games. long set up times are often a problem for me regardless of the game type, it's probably the biggest reason I make my own inserts. If I can set up a game in two minutes I can usually get it played, the longer set up takes, the less I get the game played.

another problem with Aeon's end (and this is by no means a problem unique to Aeon's end) is that it's very flat. Former Magic players and Euro Die Hards tend not to notice this, but games really pop more when they have vertical elements. I put the counters for Aeon's end on stands just to give the game some vertical appeal. It might seem silly but I'd love to have Individualized card holders for the boss's decks that could be presorted (again I know this would take more cards). these could be just a few bits of cardboard you slide together. These things draw your eyes upward off the table making looking around the table at your neighbors a more readily available action. Lord knows there's enough space in the box for it.

I'm also at the point where I'm starting to get annoyed by the "decks of cards for everything" game design mentality. I realize deckbuilders do this by default, but that doesn't mean I can't find it annoying.

PS, I do really like the game.
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Norman L.
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I actually stand the nemesis up w/ plastic stands during play as I've found it makes them much more imposing to the rest of the Gravehold 'playing field.' I think I will use stands for both life trackers as well, just to reduce their table footprint.
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Normiyagi wrote:
I actually stand the nemesis up w/ plastic stands during play as I've found it makes them much more imposing to the rest of the Gravehold 'playing field.' I think I will use stands for both life trackers as well, just to reduce their table footprint.


A friend of mine uses pocket-sized easels to make his Sentinels of the Multiverse Oversized Villain card look more imposing. It should work pretty well for Nemeses too.
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