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Arkham Horror: The Card Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: "When round ends," vs. "At end of round" rss

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Johnpatrick Marr
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Hi All,

I know the general rule is that if two effects are resolving simultaneously players choose the order of resolution, but does "When round ends" naturally take precedence over "At end of round?"

Thanks, I've gotta know whether to scrap my current campaign attempt or not!
 
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Tony Makos
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I don't know about Arkham Horror, but in the Game of Thrones LCG (2nd Ed) it works like this:

"When the round ends" effects trigger first;
Effects expire that run "Until the end of the round";
"At the end of the round" effects then trigger

When/Until/At (WUA) is the mnemonic I use to remember it. If there are conflicting effects at the same point then first player/lead investigator chooses which happens first.

Yes, it's clunky and confusing as hell but if there's consistency between LCGs then it might work that way.
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mplain
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Quote:
http://arkhamdb.com/rules#When
The word "when" refers to the moment immediately after the specified timing point or triggering condition initiates, but before its impact upon the game state resolves. The resolution of a "when" ability interrupts the resolution of its timing point or triggering condition.

Quote:
http://arkhamdb.com/rules#Delayed_Effects
Some abilities create delayed effects. Such abilities specify a future timing point, or indicate a future condition that may arise, and dictate an effect that will happen at that time.

So it goes like this:
1. Triggering condition initiates
2. Reactions that use the word "When" can be triggered
3. Lasting effects ("Until the end of...") wear off
4. Triggering condition resolves
5. Delayed effects ("At the end of...") trigger
6. Reactions that use the word "After" can be triggered

This whole sequence isn't explained in the Arkham rulebook, but you can refer to the official FAQ for AGOT (http://thronesdb.com/faq#End_of_Phase), timing works the same way here and there.

Bonus: The "If..." ability on Act 3 of "The Gathering" triggers after reactions to the same triggering condition. We have s specific ruling on this, not sure yet how this works in general.
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Enon Sci
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cockbongo wrote:


Yes, it's clunky and confusing as hell but if there's consistency between LCGs then it might work that way.


There isn't.

Different designers. Different lineages. Different game play approaches (cooperative v competitive).

You can find commonalities, but you can never intuit or assume commonalities.
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mplain
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Anarchosyn wrote:
Different designers.

Both games were designed by Nate French.

I'd say that if you cannot find an answer to a specific issue in the Arkham rulebook, but you know how it works in Thrones, it's pretty safe to assume that it works the same way. Of course, it wouldn't hurt to also ask Matt, the co-lead designer. But so far to my knowledge only one thing that is not explicitly explained in the Arkham rulebook works in a different way than in Thrones (enters-play abilities triggering in setup).
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Daikaku Tanaka
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"When round ends" should triggers prior to "At the end of the round".

Matthew Newman, a lead designer of Arkham Horror LCG mentioned about this on CardgameDB forum with other FAQs.
(http://www.cardgamedb.com/forums/index.php?/topic/33253-freq...)
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Johnpatrick Marr
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cockbongo wrote:
I don't know about Arkham Horror, but in the Game of Thrones LCG (2nd Ed) it works like this:

"When the round ends" effects trigger first;
Effects expire that run "Until the end of the round";
"At the end of the round" effects then trigger

When/Until/At (WUA) is the mnemonic I use to remember it. If there are conflicting effects at the same point then first player/lead investigator chooses which happens first.

Yes, it's clunky and confusing as hell but if there's consistency between LCGs then it might work that way.


Very helpful to have a mnemonic, thanks!

For anyone curious about the gameplay situation in "The Gathering" scenario of the "Night of the Zealot" campaign that raised this question, spoilers below:

Spoiler (click to reveal)
The objective that allows players to go from Act 2 to Act 3 has a "When the round ends" trigger and the resolution of that card places a ghoul in the Hallway. The third agenda has an "At the end of the round" trigger which advances doom for every ghoul in the Hallway (or Parlor). Since this caused the scenario to end in the following mythos phase, I didn't get to lay the smackdown on the Ghoul Priest and he survived to harass me for the remaining scenarios.
 
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Tony Makos
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Anarchosyn wrote:
cockbongo wrote:


Yes, it's clunky and confusing as hell but if there's consistency between LCGs then it might work that way.


There isn't.

Different designers. Different lineages. Different game play approaches (cooperative v competitive).

You can find commonalities, but you can never intuit or assume commonalities.


I did say "if" and "might".
 
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