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Dungeon Twister: Forces of Darkness» Forums » General

Subject: Thin Cardboard Controversy? Again?? rss

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Clinton Paris
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Just picked up the English (US?) version of DT:FoD and noticed when punching out that the fist sheet (which includes the items and heroes for this expansion) is a thinner cardboard stock than the rest of the tiles in this set. Obviously, this poses a problem that astute players will notice which face down tokes are thin and which are thick to see where items and creatures might be during setup.






I'm not sure that this would bother me too much, but didn't we have a similar problem with the original game? That is, reprints on thicker stock were made available to those that purchased the base game printed with the same issue?

Say it isn't so, Asmodee!



--------------

UPDATE:

I went back through the garbage and identified that the thin counters came from the same sheet as the square and rectangular corridor tiles. I also took a few more pictures showing the counter fronts for reference.




(Edit to photos)
(Edit to add more photos and info on counter sheet)
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crparis wrote:
I'm not sure that this would bother me too much, but didn't we have a similar problem with the original game?


Thanks for the info. I was going to order this expansion today!

It took me 4 months and repeated emails to Asmodee to get the replacement sheets for the base game and i don't plan to do it all over again!

I'll wait until this issue is fully resolved before ordering...
 
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(Sigh.) Been there, done that. Off to see if I can cancel part of an order.

Thanks for "heads up".
 
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(Mr.) Kim Beattie
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Just checked my copy of Forces of Darkness and the counters and room tiles are the same thickness as in the corrected version of the Base Set. I don't see any difference in counter or tile thickness in my copy.
 
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Eric Franklin
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kimbo wrote:
Just checked my copy of Forces of Darkness and the counters and room tiles are the same thickness as in the corrected version of the Base Set. I don't see any difference in counter or tile thickness in my copy.
I was going to say the same thing - I compared to my P&D and 2nd Printing base set.

Eric
 
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Gene Warren
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My FoD tokens seem to be the same thickness, but the backs of the dungeon tiles are a noticeably different color than the tiles of the 2nd printing base set and those of P&D.
 
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Kevin Chamberlain
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Asmodee has to be the worse company ever for quality control. Different thickness, different shades of color. What the heck!!! I love the game, but their quality just plain sucks.
 
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Diane Close
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I just got mine today from Thoughthammer and it has the problem you describe. Everything is fine except the one sheet, which contains the items, etc. Has anyone heard directly from Asmodee about this yet?
 
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In a few days i'll be able to check a game coming from UK and i'll post here my findings, although i suspect that the UK edition is from the same print run as the US one...
 
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Eric Harlaux
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Got my copy last week, and visiting my parents last night, I decided to check with actual tools (my father works in industrial electronics, and has been specialized in digital measurement tools for the past 10 years or so), since I couldn't spot a difference myself.

There is a difference. 0.6mm. That's right, a full 0.023622 inches difference between the FoD items and those of the Base Set. This is truly a travesty. Imagine that, 0.023622 inches! Now EVERYONE will be able to notice that.

*turns sarcasm off*
Seriously folks. How about quitting the whining about the sort of detail no one will ever pay attention to during a game and actually talk about the game itself?
 
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Simon Dunkley
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Hi, as a solution to players using the thickness of tokens to influence there decisions. Would it be possible to use a glass bead or other token on the board and use a cloth bag to draw the real tokens from randomly,
 
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Eric Franklin
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rhox wrote:
Hi, as a solution to players using the thickness of tokens to influence there decisions. Would it be possible to use a glass bead or other token on the board and use a cloth bag to draw the real tokens from randomly,


Token placement isn't random.

However using a representative item with a chart - "The Thumbtack is my Rope" - might work, even though it's a bit of additional work.

Eric
 
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Devon Harmon
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When this problem reared its head last time, here's what we did as a fix:

We covered the tokens with coins. One player was nickels, the other quarters. We put them tails side up over the tokens. Made it harder to tell if the token placed was from the original set or the expansion. Even if the coins are marked, you switch them around between games, so it doesn't really matter.
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Andy Allardyce
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Interesting use of coins - I'll have to remember that.

Do you have any tips for dealing with variations in Room Board colour? I noticed that the backside of the FoD Room Boards are rosier than the other sets, and fairly easy to spot. This could impact token placement at beginning of game when mixing sets. I can see this problem continuing as new expansions are released.

Perhaps tokens could be placed first (on table, off to the side), Game Board created next, and then tokens moved to corresponding spot on Board.
 
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Hemlockaaa wrote:
Do you have any tips for dealing with variations in Room Board colour?


Easy to fix: place the tokens first in the empty spaces, then the room tiles.
 
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GeoMan wrote:
Hemlockaaa wrote:
Do you have any tips for dealing with variations in Room Board colour?


Easy to fix: place the tokens first in the empty spaces, then the room tiles.


Unsatisfactory. Because of dicoloration, players will be able to tell which rooms are 'paired', and may make decisions (eg: moving a Mekanork to a gear of a room matching a room you know you'll be revealing next) based on that.

I'd say the solution would have to be not even to bring the room boards out until such time as they are to be revealed. At the beginning og the game set aside 4 pairs of room tiles as a 'room deck'. During placement, place the tokens in the spaces, and when any user says "I'm taking an action to reveal a room (indicates a space with a character adjacent)", THEN you shuffle the room deck and select one.
 
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That's what i was trying to say!
 
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Bernard Ruliff wrote:
Got my copy last week, and visiting my parents last night, I decided to check with actual tools (my father works in industrial electronics, and has been specialized in digital measurement tools for the past 10 years or so), since I couldn't spot a difference myself.

There is a difference. 0.6mm. That's right, a full 0.023622 inches difference between the FoD items and those of the Base Set. This is truly a travesty. Imagine that, 0.023622 inches! Now EVERYONE will be able to notice that.

*turns sarcasm off*
Seriously folks. How about quitting the whining about the sort of detail no one will ever pay attention to during a game and actually talk about the game itself?


I can see which counters are which from 10 feet away. The problem is real. People aren't just making it up.



Meanwhile: I just got my copy and it's the same issue. One of the counter sheets is the thin version while the others are all the thick version. I assume from all the posts that it's a systemic problem with the English version of the game.

I'm not sure whether I should send the game to Asmodee or wait and see what happens or what.

We always play mutual choice, so I suppose we can just let a different counter temporarily stand in for the bad counter. But if you want to play secret choice -- maybe each player could write on an index card that a counter stands for a different one. Then you show that card when the stand-in counter is revealed.
 
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Simon Dunkley
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This is what asmodee had to say regarding token colour and thickness variations.

Dear Simon,
I apologize for the delayed reply.
I would like to thank you very much for your remarks.
The problem of the color as you point it out is there.
However, with every printing of a new expansion we try with our printing partners to keep the colors as close as possible.
not a very easy feat.
The carton and the ink are all the same, even so, the results are never exactly the same.
As for the thinner token, six token are thinner and we are now talking with the printers to find a solution. Every day we look for the best solutions to solve these dilemmas.
This is why I really appreciate your comments.
Sincerely,
 
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rhox wrote:
As for the thinner token, six token are thinner and we are now talking with the printers to find a solution.


So this is a known problem and we should expect replacement tokens soon?

I don't understand why some people here reported that their copies had no problems at all...
 
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Eric, only 0.6mm difference is minimal if the object you're talking about is much bigger, but I'd reckon the cardboard is what, 2mm thick at best - making the difference about a third of the original! It's pretty easy to tell when something's a third smaller or bigger, no matter what the actual difference in measurement is.

I have this coming from Britain so I hope it's right!
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GeoMan wrote:
rhox wrote:
As for the thinner token, six token are thinner and we are now talking with the printers to find a solution.


So this is a known problem and we should expect replacement tokens soon?

I don't understand why some people here reported that their copies had no problems at all...

Because the original report was not specific enough in terms of which tokens were thinner. So when I looked at my tokens, they seemed to be of the same thickness. (I didn't check every token at that point, just the first ones I came to when I opened the box.) Later, when the original poster made it clear which tokens were thinner, I checked again and found that certain tokens were indeed obviously thinner.
 
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What a perfect opportunity for Asmodee to correct two mistakes at once.

They should produce an "upgrade pack" to replace the thin tokens, and include the "missing" stand-up blue & gold character tokens for the 3 Zombies and the Bat.

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I checked a copy which arrived from the UK and unfortunately it has the same problem.

10 counters are printed in cardboard that is 1/3 in thickness compared to the other components! The counters when face-down can be easily recognized from the other side of the table! shake
 
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Well, well, well...

Here's the reply i got from Asmodee regarding the thickness issue:

"Good Afternoon,
I apologize for the inconvenience this may be causing you. However, at this time there is nothing else I can do about this problem.
I did see in BGG that some players had found a solution to the situation. I am sorry that there is not more I can do for you.

Sincerely,

N. Gabriela Meza
Asmodee Editions LLC"


Can anyone tell me what this solution is? (Probably not to buy another Asmodee product again?) angry

I'd like to remind to Asmodee that this expansion costs 20 pounds (29.50 euro), the same as the Shogun game from Queen which comes with MANY more components and is of MUCH better quality...
 
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