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Subject: Opposing Trump rss

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David desJardins
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What do people who oppose Trump think are likely to be the best strategies for reducing his popular support and turning people against his policies?

I am reminded of George W Bush, who eventually became unpopular but it took a long time. We don't have that much time. And Trump is better than Bush at manipulating public opinion.

I hear a lot of people on the left talking about "massive resistance" and "sand in the gears", which may well be necessary in some or many cases but aren't going to turn the people who voted for Trump against him.

This is a pretty serious question. I'm in a position in the next few months where I may well be influencing what approaches are tried. I won't just do what people say but I'm seriously looking for input, and I think it's really important.

For example, he campaigned on "draining the swamp" but he's populating his entire administration with swamp creatures. Is that central? What might make Trump voters realize what they are getting is not going to be good for them, sooner than they otherwise might?

I'm sure some people will post in this thread to defend Trump, try not to argue with them, I would rather hear actual suggestions than argue about whether Trump is good or bad.

If you would rather send me GeekMail, that would work as well.
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Oh my God They Banned Kenny
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I think your best move would be to stick your head underwater and hold it there for at least 20 minutes.
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C Bazler
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The only way Trump's diehard fans would turn against him would be if they actually witnessed the results of his planned policies: lower taxes for the wealthy, fewer regulations and union busting, cuts to Medicaid, welfare, and Social Security. They will watch the rich get richer and the poor and elderly left with less and less. Wages will go down. Crime will skyrocket. That ought to do it.

Some things he wants to do certainly need to be stopped: for example, stripping health care away from the 50 million people on ACA, discriminatory and unconsitutional mistreatment of Muslims, federal laws enforcing the death penalty.
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I do not know specifically but Sen. Warren seems to be vocal and sounds like she has some ideas about that. You're in MA anyway. Could you talk to and possibly work with someone from her office?
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David desJardins
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Many of the people who voted for Trump are not diehard fans. We don't need to influence the diehard fans, to have a significant majority.

Taking away health insurance and enforcing the death penalty are things that can't be stopped. Discrimination against Muslims there is more hope about, because we still have a Constitution.
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Welcome Rolling Stones
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Fake news stories seem to work. The more outrageous the better, apparently.
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Oh my God They Banned Kenny
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49xjohn wrote:

Fake news stories seem to work. The more outrageous the better, apparently.


Actually, there were plenty of such stories that didn't work. Specifically the ones that favoured Clinton.
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Grand Admiral Thrawn
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DaviddesJ wrote:
What might make Trump voters realize what they are getting is not going to be good for them, sooner than they otherwise might?

Well, they sure won't like the effects of Trump's actual plan:

1) Tweet and harass interns while Ryan's (Koch's) Agenda is passed.
2) Not get a wall or immigration enforcement. OmniCorp rejects anything restricting cheap labor.
3) Not get any decent-paying jobs back. OmniCorp rejects any cuts to profit margin. Keep your Walmart job.
4) No job skills or higher education to train for current jobs. Education is for the elites. Job training only provided by scam for-profit online universities. Loans follow your family after death.
5) No social safety net that you paid into. Robbed for tax cuts to 1%.

But it don't matter because.........they'll blame liberals, "The Media", Muslims, and Jews. Win House & Senate seats in 2018. Secure more legislatures and governorships. Rinse, repeat.
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Grand Admiral Thrawn
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Our hope is to unionize, organize, jam up, and smash the gears of the megamachine. The fucking right-wing talk radio noise has drowned out all hope of reaching similarly working-class-but-duped people by facts or knowledge or elections. The rubes will continue to be fleeced yet move farther and farther to the right to compensate.
 
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Grand Admiral Thrawn
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cbazler wrote:
The only way Trump's diehard fans would turn against him would be if they actually witnessed the results of his planned policies: lower taxes for the wealthy, fewer regulations and union busting, cuts to Medicaid, welfare, and Social Security. They will watch the rich get richer and the poor and elderly left with less and less. Wages will go down. Crime will skyrocket. That ought to do it.

Some things he wants to do certainly need to be stopped: for example, stripping health care away from the 50 million people on ACA, discriminatory and unconsitutional mistreatment of Muslims, federal laws enforcing the death penalty.

They'll effectively blame the Left for this though.
 
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C Bazler
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einsteinidahosu wrote:
But it don't matter because.........they'll blame liberals, "The Media", Muslims, and Jews.


Don't forget "Mexicans stealing our jobs" and "lazy black welfare queens."

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Grand Admiral Thrawn
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cbazler wrote:
einsteinidahosu wrote:
But it don't matter because.........they'll blame liberals, "The Media", Muslims, and Jews.


Don't forget "Mexicans stealing our jobs" and "lazy black welfare queens."

True, but there's a special place in this cycle for the "Jewish media elite" due to our new obergruppenführer...I mean...advisor to the President.
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Kelsey Rinella
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I don't think stories of corruption are going to matter. The people we need to reach are sort of tuned out of the specifics, and are basically going to assume that political corruption is universal and all the same, so they'll tune out any complaints that this is reaching unusual proportions as simply the result of the bias the media has to make everything sound apocalyptic and/or the bias Democrats have against Republicans.

I similarly think that data won't help. They don't connect with it.

What you need are particular people who have been personally turned against Trump by his actions. Mike Rowe would be a great option--he's the sort of celebrity a lot of folks who hate politics as usual see as one of them, and he seems principled enough that he might actually be amenable to criticizing Trump when he deserves it. I'd also try to recruit people generally viewed as non-political and who have demonstrated productive skills, so someone like Bob Vila would be good. I don't watch a lot of broadcast TV, but in general, I'd look for people who have shows about things like home improvement, hunting, fishing, and cooking which largely appeal to non-upper-class viewers. Basically, anyone who's familiar and doesn't seem partisan or a member of the usual entertainer/sports star class, whom they've gotten used to enjoying while dismissing their views.

I wonder whether the best option to would be fund a program in which step one is just to ask people like that what policies they'd like to see, and have the interviewer write them down as they talk and get confirmation as they go that this is what they've said. My impression is that it'll be a lot easier to make Trump look like he's failed the people he campaigned to save if you can get people to think about what, specifically, he ought to do.

All of which said, I'm a largely introverted political novice, so what do I know?
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Chris R.
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Quote:
Discrimination against Muslims there is more hope about, because we still have a Constitution.




(But what happens if all of Muslims became Christians, and all the Christians become Muslims, then whatever will you do then? )

...



(And what happens if both claim to have some similar beliefs not approved by the high church of intolerant liberalism?)
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David desJardins
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sikeospi wrote:
(And what happens if both claim to have some similar beliefs not approved by the high church of intolerant liberalism?)


In that case, I think they are pretty safe, because the Trump administration is unlikely to be heavily influenced by intolerant liberalism.

I think the concern is more that Trump might do what he said during the campaign, which is to discriminate against Muslims.
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R. Frazier
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The key is to dominate the media conversation the way Trump has. The media is a slave to ratings and by providing ratings and depending on the media's refusal to call him a liar, the Trump campaign has effectively turned all media outlets into 24 hour sources of his insane opinions and positions.

The left wing establishment needs to put a person in a leadership position who is willing to make big claims and big attacks on trump personally and his policies directly and will be extremely vocal and combative about them, possibly Warren or a Biden?

Similar to what Bernie does with his FB account but more targeted on destroying Trump 24/7 with a stronger focus on his flaws.

The republicans have been enthusiastically waging wars of personal destruction on Democratic presidential candidates, presidents and hopefuls for decades. It's working. Even when it turns out to reveal nothing, it's still successful in turning the conversation. We need to do the same thing.
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deadkenny wrote:
49xjohn wrote:

Fake news stories seem to work. The more outrageous the better, apparently.


Actually, there were plenty of such stories that didn't work. Specifically the ones that favoured Clinton.

I'm not familiar. Would you happen to have an example?
 
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William Boykin
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I dont think "Not being Trump" will suffice. I think the Democrats need to stand behind some specific issues and try to contrast those issues with the GOP.

Specifically, I think the Democrats have to talk about how trade and growth have been for the nation as a whole, but seriously listen to and propose solutions for those people who have been left behind. More worker retraining programs like TAA would help, as would support for working women to get easier access to reliable child care.

They wont get any of that passed, of course, but making serious proposals on these issues would differentiate Trump from the Democrats.

Id also suggest focusing efforts on state levels to fight gerrymandering. The Democrats should be working harder to win back state assemblies and nibble on the House.

Finally, tactically ally with dissident Republicans on sone issues, or even Trump against the GOP. The Democrats need to rebrand themselves as the party of the little guys; men and women who through no fault of their own see themselves falling underwater with no lifegaurd on duty- and the GOP aint going to pay for one.

I havent seen enough from Congress recognizing that the Democrats are seen not as a party of 'us', but 'thems'- special interests, minorities, rich techies. More needs to be done to show how this collection and hodge podge can better represent all Americans, and not just uneducated White men.

Darilian
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Oh my God They Banned Kenny
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49xjohn wrote:
deadkenny wrote:
49xjohn wrote:

Fake news stories seem to work. The more outrageous the better, apparently.


Actually, there were plenty of such stories that didn't work. Specifically the ones that favoured Clinton.

I'm not familiar. Would you happen to have an example?


Oh, there are plenty of examples, however, I'm sure you'll just reject any I put forward. For any who might actually be sincerely interested, I suggest looking up "Trump requests Russian hackers to make cyber attacks against the US" or replace "requests" with "invites". Some fine fake reporting there.
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Mac Mcleod
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Find a way to get democratic voters to move from California to conservative low population states.

Publicize the more extreme abortion efforts.

Fund investigation of illegal and unconstitutional acts by Mr trump , his family, and members of his administration.

Fund efforts to make people aware of alt right activity like Nazi salutes.

Fund protesters and legal protection for protesters.

Fund democratic charity efforts in the red states.

Fund cameras to capture illegal actions against protesters.

I'll talk to my friends and get back on this.


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put some deep blue water between their own policies and the republicians. Don't be a globalisation\free trade conservative party against the repubs rabid capitalism.


After all if people want right wing policies why would they settle for a lighter shade when they can have the real thing.


present and implement real socalist ( with a small 's') policies that will make everyones lives better and pick the right battles. Then you can present it as for the good of all agaisnt the those greedy few and let the greedy few squeal.
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lotus dweller
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Russian efforts to get Trump POTUS
If the Russians are found to have had a significant influence on the outcome then that would seem very arousing of the narratives around democracy, liberty, nationhood and independence.

It's one thing to be shafted by your fellow Americans.

Quite another to find you've all been shafted by the Russians.

Could even unify the country. (Which could have it's own problems. But at least you wouldn't have Russian picked hands on the steering wheel.)

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Pinook wrote:
If the Russians are found to have had a significant influence on the outcome then that would seem very arousing of the narratives around democracy, liberty, nationhood and independence.

It's one thing to be shafted by your fellow Americans.

Quite another to find you've all been shafted by the Russians.

Could even unify the country. (Which could have it's own problems.)



It won't make the slightiest difference due to Cognitive dissonance. Even if it is proved he was in Putins pocket- His supporters will just tell evryone and themselves he is nobodies puppet and his own man.
 
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lotus dweller
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growlley wrote:
Pinook wrote:
If the Russians are found to have had a significant influence on the outcome then that would seem very arousing of the narratives around democracy, liberty, nationhood and independence.

It's one thing to be shafted by your fellow Americans.

Quite another to find you've all been shafted by the Russians.

Could even unify the country. (Which could have it's own problems.)



It won't make the slightiest difference due to Cognitive dissonance. Even if it is proved he was in Putins pocket- His supporters will just tell evryone and themselves he is nobodies puppet and his own man.

Those well known Libtards, the CIA, and other national security bodies won't convince them?

Are you thinking that all Trump voters are rusted on?
I'm not but that's just me assuming things.
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