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Subject: Worth it, especially without expansions? rss

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Tony the Terrible
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So, I have come by means of buying the 1.5 edition, but my question is.. is it worth the money, especially if you don't have the funds to buy any of the expansions? I am really interested in this game.
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Matthew Hughey
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Get the base game now and wait to see if you even like it. The creator said the base game has hundreds of hours worth of gameplay.
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Chad Carlson
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I say yes! I was able to pick up a copy about a year ago, and this is now my favorite game, I've played 18 times or so and though I've picked up several expansions I have yet to incorporate any into my playing. There really is an enormous amount of game in the core box alone.
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Merethif
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Definitely, KDM is great game by its own. Expansions are fancy, have some cool miniatures and what not, but core game is enough to fully enjoy KDM - it has lots of replayability and rules for variant campaigns when you really got bored with regular campaign.
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Pedro Ortiz
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im a painter so i got all the expansions for the hobby sake, as for the game itself its one of my favorites, im playing it solo because people struggle with english on spain,at this point i have started 6 campaings, played around 100 hours (still havent beat the game) and everytime its a different cruel, deadly story, at this point its still not worth for me adding more expansions because i havent mastered the base game... if you dont cheat and go read guidelines the only way to learn in this nightmarish world is by mistake and some times that means losing your settlement-game over.
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Chris Leigh
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Leighton Buzzard
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I did a video which specifically addresses this question. Long story short its definitely worth it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfHXh6zgTp4
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Shelby Babb
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No. It's not.

There's a ton of stuff in the core box, but it's all overpriced compared to... say... a CMoN Kickstarter where you get tons of pre-assembled minis. Here you have to put it all together. KS prices are good (as it is with a CMoN campaign), but afterwards you can expect to pay around twice as much to complete your collection (which is easier than CMoN campaigns, with all their exclusives). -Except- stuff can feel exclusive, when KD products go out of stock or print.

And we're not even talking about the promos and pinups (short version: no game stuff).

I mean, sure, everybody in this forum will tell you how fun it is. How you can play it solo or with a group. How the campaign system is a true, evolving campaign, and not some tacked on sequence of scenarios claiming to be a campaign. How gameplay is a brutal, unfair learning experience... until you learn how to approach it as an equal. How the theme and setting are truly original. But does that stuff really matter?
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Joshua Nash
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San Dee Jota wrote:


I mean, sure, everybody in this forum will tell you how fun it is. How you can play it solo or with a group. How the campaign system is a true, evolving campaign, and not some tacked on sequence of scenarios claiming to be a campaign. How gameplay is a brutal, unfair learning experience... until you learn how to approach it as an equal. How the theme and setting are truly original. But does that stuff really matter?


Then what matters?
 
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Shelby Babb
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JPN38 wrote:
San Dee Jota wrote:


I mean, sure, everybody in this forum will tell you how fun it is. How you can play it solo or with a group. How the campaign system is a true, evolving campaign, and not some tacked on sequence of scenarios claiming to be a campaign. How gameplay is a brutal, unfair learning experience... until you learn how to approach it as an equal. How the theme and setting are truly original. But does that stuff really matter?


Then what matters?


Nothing. Nothing else matters.



(DAMN BGG link system!!! Ruin my joke!!!)
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Joshua Nash
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If it was the Metallica song, then I approve.
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Erik Andersson
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I am also new to the game. If you get the core game for 250 (or 200 if you can snipe an eb) you will probably get your money back if you don't like it.

 
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Shelby Babb
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JPN38 wrote:
If it was the Metallica song, then I approve.


It was (sniffle), it was.
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B K
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I don't think you need one more random person telling you the core game is totally worth it... but I will anyway.
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Alex Russo
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Depends what kind of game do you like.

Ask yourself:
- Do I like assembling miniatures with no instructions and some very small pieces, like a hand (or hundreds literally), or half of an arm?
- Can I enjoy a game that with one bad roll can wipe my entire party, and sometimes the entire settlement, and start over.
- Do I like heavy book keeping?
- Do I get attached to my characters and hate when they die?

Don't go into the hype train, read some good articles about KDM, and decide if you can enjoy this game... it is not for everyone.
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Alessio Massuoli
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Terni
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Sloth might be my spirit animal
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Ok, ok, NOW I get it!
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all true, except for the part when one bad roll can wipe your party/settlement.

I want to spend a couple of words about this, because it's becoming frequent.

First thing, luck can turn over battles in both senses. A dying monster can kill off your fully armored tank, and your naked guy can open the throath of the dreaded King's Man in a second.

in kdm, you can lose the settlement of you choose bad at early start, or if you choose extremely bad when the settlement is running. nothing, for good or worse, gets decided with a single roll, or a single fight. This game is large-scale strategic (where large-scale here means that multiple battles will carry to the final outcome).

short term, bad rolls can make you feel powerless, while good rolls make you feel invincible.

This said, the game is not for everyone, and it is a serious commitment, so plan ahead.
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Erik Andersson
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Good rolls - I am the best strategist ever!
Bad rolls - stupid random game

whistle
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Fen Yan
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Yes. Fine without the expansions. More value if you don't mind assembling miniatures. If you have a lot of gaming time available between now and June, go ahead and buy it.
 
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Richard Sampson
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San Dee Jota wrote:
There's a ton of stuff in the core box, but it's all overpriced compared to... say... a CMoN Kickstarter where you get tons of pre-assembled minis. Here you have to put it all together. KS prices are good (as it is with a CMoN campaign), but afterwards you can expect to pay around twice as much to complete your collection (which is easier than CMoN campaigns, with all their exclusives). -Except- stuff can feel exclusive, when KD products go out of stock or print.
To my knowledge CMON doesn't have any "pre-assembled" minis unless you count the Blood Rage boats or something. They are just single piece, soft plastic models. That is fine and the minis look great (minus some bending of long, thin pieces), but you simply cannot get the detail that a hard plastic or resin model can provide using that method and material.

Also with regards to construction, it is work, but it is work that many people enjoy. This is why people pay for model kits.
 
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Steve
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Threads like this keep convincing me to get less and less because of my situation. Down to just the base game and the 1st hero (it comes out 2 years after the base game and sounds like a nice skipping mechanic). Still debating if I need to get the gamblers chest or not for the game play stuff, but I will not know that until the end. I love the narrative sculpts though.

....I keep telling myself I should go against my better judgment of the above and jump back on the hype train and just buy the Dragon as well....Its like I have a little devil on one shoulder and a penis monster on the other, both screwing with my head lol.
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Michael Pflug
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I only played the base game so far, without any expansions, and I'm having a blast!
Also I'm overwhelmed by the amount of content and variation in the base game.

So I'd definitely recommend it, even without any expansions.

If you like it, you can get some later.
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Geoff ...
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ras2124 wrote:
To my knowledge CMON doesn't have any "pre-assembled" minis unless you count the Blood Rage boats or something. They are just single piece, soft plastic models.

Actually, most if not all CMoN minis games have some multi-part preassembled minis. Off the top of my head:

Arcadia Quest - all heroes and (all?) enemies.
Blood Rage - Ships, large monsters.
B-Sieged - (all?) enemies.
The Others - Avatars, maybe some heroes.
Zombicide BP - Zombi-bosses.
Massive Darkness - Roaming Monsters, many other monsters.

But yes, single-piece models are boring. I tire of chunky capes and sword pressed up against the body.
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Tony the Terrible
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carkara wrote:
Depends what kind of game do you like.

Ask yourself:
- Do I like assembling miniatures with no instructions and some very small pieces, like a hand (or hundreds literally), or half of an arm?
- Can I enjoy a game that with one bad roll can wipe my entire party, and sometimes the entire settlement, and start over.
- Do I like heavy book keeping?
- Do I get attached to my characters and hate when they die?

Don't go into the hype train, read some good articles about KDM, and decide if you can enjoy this game... it is not for everyone.


- I'm not the biggest fan of assembling miniatures, but I have plenty of experience from years of playing Warhammer 40k back in the day.

- Thats half the reason I want this game. I like 'hardcore' games.

- Doesn't bother me, I've played pen and paper games before.

- Definitely .


As far as everyone else goes, thank you for all the feedback. I apologize if this question has been asked a million times before. I'm just poor at the moment, and didn't want to make a heavy investment in a game if I wouldn't get much replay value out of it without all said expansions, because there is a good chance I won't be able to afford them before they all sell out. My biggest concern was replay-ability, outside of the game being fun of course.

I have zero doubt that quality wise the price tag was worth it, but when you peel away all the cosmetics, I just wanted to make sure the actual gameplay was worth it.

Good point though, if I end up not liking it, I can always re-sale it and get some of my money back, especially since it is a limited run game.

I've been looking for a good, hardcore campaign style game, and this one is nice since you can play it solo. It's not always easy getting everyone together these days in our old age with kids and real life grinding.
 
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MtHoodlum wrote:

Good point though, if I end up not liking it, I can always re-sale it and get some of my money back, especially since it is a limited run game.


Just one caveat, it won't be that limited in about 9 months. There will be at least 15,000 copies of the game, or 1.0 with an upgrade pack. To put this in perspective (because games sales numbers are impossible to find) GMT only has 5 games that have ever sold more than this:

http://www.insidegmt.com/?p=11404

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Richard Sampson
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Huger wrote:
MtHoodlum wrote:

Good point though, if I end up not liking it, I can always re-sale it and get some of my money back, especially since it is a limited run game.


Just one caveat, it won't be that limited in about 9 months. There will be at least 15,000 copies of the game, or 1.0 with an upgrade pack. To put this in perspective (because games sales numbers are impossible to find) GMT only has 5 games that have ever sold more than this:

http://www.insidegmt.com/?p=11404

Yes, but most GMT games are not in very high demand because of limited appeal. Twilight Struggle, which held the number 1 position for years, sold over 100k copies.

A better example is Scythe which had a KS for 17k copies. After the release, it was heavily sought after, completely selling out the August printing, and that was additional retail copies beyond the KS ones. It then had a second printing in October which it is completely sold out of as well.

In other words, 15k is not that many for a heavily hyped game that stays in the hotness list. Considering this game may have limited printing beyond the KS and it will be at a much higher price, it is not unlikely there will be plenty of demand to resell it at a price higher than you paid. Just look at ebay where people where sold copies are going for $700 despite the fact that people could have it for $250 in about 9 months if they backed the KS.
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J P
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ras2124 wrote:
Huger wrote:
MtHoodlum wrote:

Good point though, if I end up not liking it, I can always re-sale it and get some of my money back, especially since it is a limited run game.


Just one caveat, it won't be that limited in about 9 months. There will be at least 15,000 copies of the game, or 1.0 with an upgrade pack. To put this in perspective (because games sales numbers are impossible to find) GMT only has 5 games that have ever sold more than this:

http://www.insidegmt.com/?p=11404

Yes, but most GMT games are not in very high demand because of limited appeal. Twilight Struggle, which held the number 1 position for years, sold over 100k copies.

A better example is Scythe which had a KS for 17k copies. After the release, it was heavily sought after, completely selling out the August printing, and that was additional retail copies beyond the KS ones. It then had a second printing in October which it is completely sold out of as well.

In other words, 15k is not that many for a heavily hyped game that stays in the hotness list. Considering this game may have limited printing beyond the KS and it will be at a much higher price, it is not unlikely there will be plenty of demand to resell it at a price higher than you paid. Just look at ebay where people where sold copies are going for $700 despite the fact that people could have it for $250 in about 9 months if they backed the KS.


To add to that, Pandemic Legacy sold 59,000 copies in pre-orders alone. And, as far as I can tell, it's been selling steadily ever since. Although, to be fair, with a Legacy game, who knows how many buyers are repeat buyers that want to go through the campaign again? The point is, the board game market is larger than some people think. On the flip side, though, KD:M is much more of a niche product and doesn't have the broad appeal that a Scythe or Pandemic would have. In other words, who knows?
 
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