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Commands & Colors: Ancients» Forums » General

Subject: Can you skip Memoir and go straight to C&C: Ancients? rss

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Matthew Clark
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I have owned C&C: Ancients for a year but have never had the chance to play it. I also own Memoir 44 and have played it with my wife a good bit. I have a new friend I've been gaming with a lot. He's new to the boardgaming hobby, but he's a big computer gamer and is unintimidated by complexity. I'm excited to get some plays in of C&C, but I'm wondering if I am doing him a disservice by not introducing him to Memoir 44 first since he is unfamiliar with the system, and I know that C&C is supposed to be a much more complex game than Memoir. However, I know that he'll be a lot more excited about the C&C theme. Advice?
 
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Daniel Rodriguez
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Go straight to Ancients, the learning curve isn't that steep and the system is fantastic. You won't regret it.
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StevenE Smooth Sailing...
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As long as you are comfortable with the rules and each unit's capability I see no reason why you can't play either game with a novice to the system.
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Marina SC
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c&C: Ancients was one of the first wargames I ever played If he's motivated to learn, it will be fine!
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    I recommend this approach.
 
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Tom
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Yes. The first scenario is dead simple with no terrain to clutter the rules.

btw - C&C:Napoleonics is a bit more complex so go with Ancients.
 
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HANJEL T
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I think you won't have problems, Ancients is a really easy to learn game.
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Bermondsey Battler
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My 6.5 y/o son has mastered both Battle Cry and Memoir 44. Ancients is a possible next step for us. The system is pretty similar.
 
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HANJEL wrote:
I think you won't have problems, Ancients is a really easy to learn game.


    The hard part is getting the stickers right. Be sure to see the unit count in the image description in the rules, the sticker sheets aren't marked correctly.

    In fact C&C Ancients is one of the best games to buy used just for the assembly time issue.

             S.


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Len
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mgclark29 wrote:
I have owned C&C: Ancients for a year but have never had the chance to play it. I also own Memoir 44 and have played it with my wife a good bit. I have a new friend I've been gaming with a lot. He's new to the boardgaming hobby, but he's a big computer gamer and is unintimidated by complexity. I'm excited to get some plays in of C&C, but I'm wondering if I am doing him a disservice by not introducing him to Memoir 44 first since he is unfamiliar with the system, and I know that C&C is supposed to be a much more complex game than Memoir. However, I know that he'll be a lot more excited about the C&C theme. Advice?


Start with the first few scenarios for teaching. There will be fewer rules to learn that way and then progress to more complicated scenarios.
 
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Luka Kovač Plavi
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You actually should.

I had similar background as your friend and sold memoir after two games.
 
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Kirk Shelley
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While one would expect this forum to be biased towards Ancients, I have to agree with the comments above. Between the wooden blocks and the simplicity of the terrain the game almost takes on a chess-like quality which is very satisfying. In addition, the cards and dice helps avoid "analysis paralysis".
 
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Michal K
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Avtomatik wrote:
You actually should.

I had similar background as your friend and sold memoir after two games.


I had similar temptation...
But game changes with expansions. It is actually the biggest change I have ever seem - compare Base Memoir and D-Days Landing...
 
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Luka Kovač Plavi
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There are so many good 2player wargames out there that I saw no point in spending more money just for a possibility that I will start to like the game.

I'd rather get the game that I like from the start.

Imho, people that will become wargamers don't actually need a gateway game as the term is used when trying to get non-gamers into games.
Like there is nothing that can prepare you how to play Dwarf Fortress. People that become wargamers are usually interested enough in history/wargaming enough that they will be able to grok most rules (especially if they have a friend that knows the ruleset) with no great difficulty. I don't believe in gradual reveal of a wargamer hidden in a normal person with the likes of memoir and such.
Edit: my opinion might be a little hardcore, I admit. That was my experience so far.
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Erwin Lau
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I have never played Memoir and have no intention to.

While CCA is not in the simple end of CC incarnations, here are a few suggestions to learn CCA:

* ignore Evade rules during the first time you play.
Add them back after you feel comfortable with the game mechanics.
Mind you, Evade rules are one of the most important rules in this game.

* Pay attention to how leaders move and their combat effects.




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Keith Anderson
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ErwinLau wrote:
I have never played Memoir and have no intention to.

While CCA is not in the simple end of CC incarnations, here are a few suggestions to learn CCA:

* ignore Evade rules during the first time you play.
Add them back after you feel comfortable with the game mechanics.
Mind you, Evade rules are one of the most important rules in this game.

* Pay attention to how leaders move and their combat effects.






I wouldn't recommend leaving out evade when teaching an adult, especially one with your friend's background, since it provides some of the most interesting decision points and is core to some units' use. Just pick a scenario without terrain (terrain can be interesting but many scenarios don't use it so not having it is not too atypical) and without elephants (too many odd rules for first game).

Do point out the white circles around the color for some unit types. It can help differentiate units.
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Giulio
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The complexity of the rules in the two games is similar. The greatest difference I see between playing Memoir and Ancients is that, in my experience, the latter requires a new player to regularly check up the tables, or ask a more experienced opponent, for unit capabilities. There are more unit types in Ancients than in Memoir and sometimes their difference are perceived as minimal (for an expert player of course they are not) and, as a consequence, difficult to remember. Probably, this asking about units is going on for several scenarios while in memoir it normally stops in the second round of the first scenario.

As a suggestion about teaching not only the rules, but also a bit of strategy, you can assign the historical winning side to the new player and, for the first few games, suggest him to try to imitate the strategy that was historically adopted by the winners. This is going to work in the majority of cases and it's a good exercise to learn the appropriate use of the different unit types.
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