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Subject: Adapt Verrater to 5 players? rss

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Richard Vickery
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I have been wondering why the game was set-up for 3-4. The four player game has the problem that the 1:3 battles are nearly always a loss for the single player so being on the wrong side of the initial conversion is a bad thing. It can also have the effect of functionally locking in the leader several turns before the end.

Having five players may tend the solve this problem as presumably most of the time the balance will be 3:2 with individual players flopping in and out. You could set such a version up with 2 sets of Verrater by:

1. letting player five choose from the card rejected by player one as well as the card passed to him by player four, so that there is uncertainty about every player's choice.
2. adding 6 more supply cards.
3. marking up one set of Kontor/Gutshof cards.
4. banning a Traitor action that would make a 5:0 alliance (as otherwise you would need to alter the victory point value of the landscape cards).
5. play 10 rounds.

Any thoughts? I think I might try and get hold of another set of cards.
 
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Richard Vickery
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You would also add 3 lands: 2 of the same type of opposite alignment plus one of the alignment of the faction starting with 3 members. This gives enough lands for the Gutshofs to be built in each round.
 
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Richard Vickery
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Tried this out as listed above, except we only added four supply cards (2,3,4,5). The land cards added were 2 x weide and 1 x wald.

It worked fine and felt much like normal Verrater. The traitor was usually a good pick as flipping from the 3 alliance to the 2 alliance would usually swing the victory to your new side. However in the rare cases where the betrayed twosome held on, there were good points to be had. Despite a large gap in mid-game, scores closed up again near the end. Good fun.
 
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Gary Pressler
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Heh... I was just looking over the game a few days ago and was wondering why the game wouldn't work with 5P. I finally remembered to check on here. I came up with some of the same conclusions (no more than 4 per faction, and let the fifth player in a round choose between the card handed to them and card unavailable to the first player), but I hadn't though about the need for more land or goods cards. Now you've got me debating on whether or not to invest in a second copy, given that the copy I have is rarely played. But 5P seems so ideal!

Plus, I could mark up one of the role cards of the extra copy to add the Soldier variant card... dagnabit, I might be adding this (again) to my next order.
 
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Thomas Frank
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I love this idea. In fact 5 players sounds just perfect for Verräter. Why didn't the designer think of that??

Guess I'm gonna go into town this week and get another copy ...
 
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Marcel-André Casasola Merkle
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Simple answer: The game was originally designed to fit 60 cards (the Adlung card limit) and this amount is simply not enough material for 5 players.

Best Marcel-André
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Gary Pressler
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I never did get around to buying a second set. I still might, but the 4P game really shines with Marcel-André's updated rules with the sometimes turncoat Diplomat.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/390842
 
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Spieler Gott
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Marcel Casasola wrote:
Simple answer: The game was originally designed to fit 60 cards (the Adlung card limit) and this amount is simply not enough material for 5 players.

Best Marcel-André


If we have a second copy of Verräter. Can you tell us which cards are best to add of the second copy to have a good and balanced 5 player version?
 
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Richard Vickery
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I posted this above, but here it is again

Add four supply cards: 1 x each of 2,3,4,5.
Add three land cards: 2 x weide and 1 x wald.
 
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RichardV wrote:
I posted this above, but here it is again

Add four supply cards: 1 x each of 2,3,4,5.
Add three land cards: 2 x weide and 1 x wald.


Thanks!
How did you pick those cards? Feeling, experience or analytics?
 
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Richard Vickery
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All of the above

Supply cards was easier - 2-5 are the most common, so changes the game least. The high cards are special so seemed better not to water those down by making them too common.

Lands: again the idea of not disrupting the points distribution too much. Using Fluss instead of Weide would be fine, but having the Stadt and Dorf as the focus for points battles seems right so we don't need more. The unbalanced one should be higher value as this is a handicap to the start faction with more lands (as the points can only go to the other side when they capture it). I guess depending on how much of an advantage you perceive being on the larger team is, you can change the relative value.

 
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