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Subject: Expansions? rss

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D Clevenger
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I'll be that guy and ask. But the rulebook clears references expansions.

An extra Era is what the rulebook points too.

And I guess more Improvements would be easy.

But what about additional places?? It doesn't seem like you could pick 12 random places each year on the fear of leaving something necessary out. But could you add 4 a year instead of 3?
 
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François Mahieu
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One of my friend pointed the fact that the last era was rather straightforward. You basically keep on doing what you did during era 3 and there's little way to come back if you're too far behind. He suggested adding "huge" and "costly" scoring buildings (as wonders for instance) might do the trick.

He might be right actually.
 
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Donny Behne
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My understanding is that the original proposal was for EIGHT eras rather than four and Mayfair trimmed it to what we see in the game now. I'm really hoping for the next four to show up in an expansion.
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D Clevenger
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kelann08 wrote:
My understanding is that the original proposal was for EIGHT eras rather than four and Mayfair trimmed it to what we see in the game now. I'm really hoping for the next four to show up in an expansion.


That would be epic . . .
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Richard Dewsbery
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Noooo!

I LIKE the fact that Era IV doesn't take as long as Eras II or III. Build a couple more key buildings then just aim to maximise your points by selling stuff off.

Plus the game is very, very long at four eras. At eight, I can't see my ever playing it. Ever.
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D Clevenger
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RDewsbery wrote:
Noooo!

I LIKE the fact that Era IV doesn't take as long as Eras II or III. Build a couple more key buildings then just aim to maximise your points by selling stuff off.

Plus the game is very, very long at four eras. At eight, I can't see my ever playing it. Ever.


So stop at four. Isn't that one of the beauties of the game that you can play as many Eras as your group can handle?
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Alex Yeager
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kelann08 wrote:
My understanding is that the original proposal was for EIGHT eras rather than four and Mayfair Lookout trimmed it to what we see in the game now. I'm really hoping for the next four to show up in an expansion.


I normally wouldn't nitpick (they are us and we are they and hey nonny nonny and all that), but Hanno and Grzegorz, along with the Lookout team, were the ones that made this game what it is. This was well into development when we came along a bit ago, and one of the best things I could have done was not monkey around in the ongoing process while I learned (and am learning) my way around. If you've got a middleweight game that needs development, Team Lookout is the way to go.

Alex Yeager
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Donny Behne
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AlexYeager wrote:
kelann08 wrote:
My understanding is that the original proposal was for EIGHT eras rather than four and Mayfair Lookout trimmed it to what we see in the game now. I'm really hoping for the next four to show up in an expansion.


I normally wouldn't nitpick (they are us and we are they and hey nonny nonny and all that), but Hanno and Grzegorz, along with the Lookout team, were the ones that made this game what it is. This was well into development when we came along a bit ago, and one of the best things I could have done was not monkey around in the ongoing process while I learned (and am learning) my way around. If you've got a middleweight game that needs development, Team Lookout is the way to go.

Alex Yeager
Mayfair Games/Lookout Games/Twilight Creations


Too true, I was typing quickly and my fingers moved faster than my brain. Apologies to those involved I may have disregarded.
 
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Agustín Jiménez
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I'll bet for some kind of military expansion...:D
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Mikko Saari
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I wouldn't, considering the designer said this (emphasis mine):

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As a teenager I had liked computer games such as the Anno series, The Settlers, SimCity and similar games. I had spent hours building up communities, cities, villages. That was the path I wanted to follow here. As I always hated the military aspects in such games, I decided against armies.
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Josh Zscheile
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I think instead of more eras (making a game longer is usually not making it better) I hope for more options (I read much about era 1 and 4 being same-ish all the time), especially within the ruleset that is already there (fleshed out use of multiple administrators, maybe some alternatives to choose from when leveling up colony relations), more interaction with other players (does not need to be aggressive), and some little tweaks (it is clear that in era 1, you'll not build hunting lodges very early, because food serves no purpose until you employ yellows in era II; similarly you will never get iron ore mines early in era II, because there is just no need for it).
 
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Greg
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Not really an expansion but the designer did pledge solo rules/scenarios.
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Jimmy Okolica
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Dagar wrote:
I think instead of more eras (making a game longer is usually not making it better) I hope for more options (I read much about era 1 and 4 being same-ish all the time), especially within the ruleset that is already there (fleshed out use of multiple administrators, maybe some alternatives to choose from when leveling up colony relations), more interaction with other players (does not need to be aggressive), and some little tweaks (it is clear that in era 1, you'll not build hunting lodges very early, because food serves no purpose until you employ yellows in era II; similarly you will never get iron ore mines early in era II, because there is just no need for it).


lol. not a strategy article, but consider laborer colony + flats in era 1. you may want hunting lodges sooner than you think. And when can you use ore in the trader colony? there's a lot to explore with the game as it is.

Also, if you go into the game with a certain strategy, then you may need to be building buildings when they show up so that when all the buildings you need are available, you're ready to execute, rather than waiting till later to build buildings.
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D Clevenger
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Dagar wrote:
I think instead of more eras (making a game longer is usually not making it better) I hope for more options (I read much about era 1 and 4 being same-ish all the time), especially within the ruleset that is already there (fleshed out use of multiple administrators, maybe some alternatives to choose from when leveling up colony relations), more interaction with other players (does not need to be aggressive), and some little tweaks (it is clear that in era 1, you'll not build hunting lodges very early, because food serves no purpose until you employ yellows in era II; similarly you will never get iron ore mines early in era II, because there is just no need for it).


Agreed. However, some of these assumptions are not always true. For example, if you have the labor colony out then yellow workers and food can be very useful in Era 1.
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Jimmy Okolica
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txaal wrote:

But what about additional places?? It doesn't seem like you could pick 12 random places each year on the fear of leaving something necessary out. But could you add 4 a year instead of 3?


That's an interesting question. Depending on what you add (and what colonies are in play), it might be possible to leave stuff out. It would potentially radically change existing strategies, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. OTOH, you could always do a "pick one of 3" sort of thing if one of a particular subset is absolutely necessary.
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Jimmy Okolica
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poifpoif wrote:
One of my friend pointed the fact that the last era was rather straightforward. You basically keep on doing what you did during era 3 and there's little way to come back if you're too far behind. He suggested adding "huge" and "costly" scoring buildings (as wonders for instance) might do the trick.

He might be right actually.


First off, I'd say the Era 4 buildings are already huge and costly.

However, as far as Era 4 being straightforward, I thought that until my last play. A friend who was playing for the first time took probably 20 minutes in the last year of the Era 4. Didn't seem straightforward to him.. and he did end up beating me by 2 points so he was probably right.
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Nathan Ehlers
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The problem with era 4 as I saw it is a standard puzzle in a lot of games that use end game scoring things and that's the delta between what you have to give up in order to get seemingly huge scoring things. Case in point, going up to the 4th level of the embassies isn't a whole lot of points. So you have to ask yourself if it makes sense to pursue that even though it's an end game thing and seems like it should be worth alot. On it's face, it's a big number, but it's only marginally increasing your points (though it also offers you a new bonus, so that could be a really important benefit as well). By contrast, adding new green buildings, especially if you can staff them, are a much better points to resources + actions conversion. The tricky part about the end of the game is figuring out the math around employing people as a modifier to building stuff verses converting stuff or otherwise improving stuff you already have. Another example, if I upgrade to a new red worker and put them to work at a new red building, I need to also remember that I'm removing a yellow worker (likely). So the gain isn't straight up face value. Other things matter a lot too, like when the casino comes out in E4. Early casinos are worth huge points, while late casinos may not be worth building at all. Or when the super-good replacement joinery comes out, giving you ultra cheap access to secondary building goods.

And to make the pie even stickier...red workers are extremely costly to employ because of clothing. Not that it's hard to get clothes (like, say steel), but it makes you subtract from your calculus in terms of time because you have to spend actions getting or making clothes.

The E4 system is way more dynamic than something like Through the Ages, where your A3 game (and more importantly wonder and impact eligibility) are based on a very small number of late A2 and early A3 choices.

All this is to say I think the end game choices continue to be as complicated as early parts of the game and I don't agree that you hit a point where you just run your engine over and over again. Just my two cents.
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D Clevenger
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sirgalin wrote:
The problem with era 4 as I saw it is a standard puzzle in a lot of games that use end game scoring things and that's the delta between what you have to give up in order to get seemingly huge scoring things. Case in point, going up to the 4th level of the embassies isn't a whole lot of points. So you have to ask yourself if it makes sense to pursue that even though it's an end game thing and seems like it should be worth alot. On it's face, it's a big number, but it's only marginally increasing your points (though it also offers you a new bonus, so that could be a really important benefit as well). By contrast, adding new green buildings, especially if you can staff them, are a much better points to resources + actions conversion. The tricky part about the end of the game is figuring out the math around employing people as a modifier to building stuff verses converting stuff or otherwise improving stuff you already have. Another example, if I upgrade to a new red worker and put them to work at a new red building, I need to also remember that I'm removing a yellow worker (likely). So the gain isn't straight up face value. Other things matter a lot too, like when the casino comes out in E4. Early casinos are worth huge points, while late casinos may not be worth building at all. Or when the super-good replacement joinery comes out, giving you ultra cheap access to secondary building goods.

And to make the pie even stickier...red workers are extremely costly to employ because of clothing. Not that it's hard to get clothes (like, say steel), but it makes you subtract from your calculus in terms of time because you have to spend actions getting or making clothes.

The E4 system is way more dynamic than something like Through the Ages, where your A3 game (and more importantly wonder and impact eligibility) are based on a very small number of late A2 and early A3 choices.

All this is to say I think the end game choices continue to be as complicated as early parts of the game and I don't agree that you hit a point where you just run your engine over and over again. Just my two cents.


I only have two games under my belt but this is exactly how I saw E4.
 
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Tim Burnett
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txaal wrote:
sirgalin wrote:
The problem with era 4 as I saw it is a standard puzzle in a lot of games that use end game scoring things and that's the delta between what you have to give up in order to get seemingly huge scoring things. Case in point, going up to the 4th level of the embassies isn't a whole lot of points. So you have to ask yourself if it makes sense to pursue that even though it's an end game thing and seems like it should be worth alot. On it's face, it's a big number, but it's only marginally increasing your points (though it also offers you a new bonus, so that could be a really important benefit as well). By contrast, adding new green buildings, especially if you can staff them, are a much better points to resources + actions conversion. The tricky part about the end of the game is figuring out the math around employing people as a modifier to building stuff verses converting stuff or otherwise improving stuff you already have. Another example, if I upgrade to a new red worker and put them to work at a new red building, I need to also remember that I'm removing a yellow worker (likely). So the gain isn't straight up face value. Other things matter a lot too, like when the casino comes out in E4. Early casinos are worth huge points, while late casinos may not be worth building at all. Or when the super-good replacement joinery comes out, giving you ultra cheap access to secondary building goods.

And to make the pie even stickier...red workers are extremely costly to employ because of clothing. Not that it's hard to get clothes (like, say steel), but it makes you subtract from your calculus in terms of time because you have to spend actions getting or making clothes.

The E4 system is way more dynamic than something like Through the Ages, where your A3 game (and more importantly wonder and impact eligibility) are based on a very small number of late A2 and early A3 choices.

All this is to say I think the end game choices continue to be as complicated as early parts of the game and I don't agree that you hit a point where you just run your engine over and over again. Just my two cents.


I only have two games under my belt but this is exactly how I saw E4.


I haven't played the game since BGG.Con, since I'm awaiting my copy. This seems like it could be excruciating playing with players with AP issues (like myself). Could the issue be helped by having a good player-aid showing the trade-offs for those buildings? Is it so complicated that it could be helped by using a spreadsheet, or does that break the game-feel?
 
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Richard Dewsbery
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timbur wrote:
This seems like it could be excruciating playing with players with AP issues (like myself).

It is. Believe me, it really is.
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Could the issue be helped by having a good player-aid showing the trade-offs for those buildings?

Not really. A better solution is just to beat the AP player to death with a rolled-up copy of the rulebook.
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D Clevenger
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RDewsbery wrote:

Not really. A better solution is just to beat the AP player to death with a rolled-up copy of the rulebook.


I disagree. The rule book is very thin. If you have a binder for the Advanced Squad Leader rule book, hit them with that.
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Geppo Muzzak
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The question is: did they announce a timeline for the expansion? Is there a clue on when we may expect it?
 
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W. Cracker
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It always boggles me that we're talking about expansions when we've hardly scratched the surface exploring this really deep & thinky game. But that's board gaming I guess. Cult of the new and acquisition disorder.
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Geppo Muzzak
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You must be joking, I haven't ordered it yet and I would like to order it WITH the expansion.
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W. Cracker
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GShock112 wrote:
You must be joking, I haven't ordered it yet and I would like to order it WITH the expansion.

Exactly my point
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