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Over on thread "fake news"
RSPer Chris R.(sikeospi) kindly brought a religious conservative news presenter's video to us.



The presenter has taken the phrase "fake news" and applied it to news stories containing claims she considers false.

The effect is to mislead her viewers into thinking that "fake news" means "false claims being presented in a news report".

The responses of conservatives on that thread were unfortunately in line with this misunderstanding of meaning.

For those of you who would rather read than watch I've included a very rough transcription of the video below.

What is being fought over around Trump is, in part, whether Americans can be trusted with the tools necessary to be able to think for themselves.

This "news presenter" is acting to deny to religious conservatives concepts which might allow critical thinking.

Or to put it simply she is trying to fill their heads with shit.

In a democracy, where informed and intelligent voters are required as a central part of the governing process, such action looks like treason - it harms and weakens the country by making the selection of representatives more random, making less optimal government more likely, making the country easier prey to destructive forces.

The five most egregious fake news stories of 2016
1.
BLM "cops shoot black men because they're black"
LW: "on our true scale this one rates false"
...
LW: "guilty of this fake new story are ... main stream media, ... and Barack Obama"

2.
LW: "From the mainstream media", "Donald Trump molests women"
"On the truth scale this one is false"
"guilty of this fake new story are ... main stream media, every liberal in America ..."

3.
LW: "This one from the sore losers on the left", "Trump's election causes spike in hate crimes ..."
"On our truth scale this one is false"
"Almost every hate-crime the media has reported has ended up to be a hoax."
...

4.
LW: "This one direct from President Obama"
"The Iran deal would prevent Iran from getting their hands on a nuclear weapon"
"it was only this year that ... himself admitted that all the talking points about the deal were made up as a way to feed the deal to the American people without us actually knowing what was in it"
"On our truth scale this one is false"
"Guilty of this fake news story - Ben Rose, President Barack Obama, Hilary Clinton, ..."

5.
LW: ... Obamacare ...
"lie, lie, lie"
...
...


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Pinook wrote:
Over on thread "fake news"
RSPer Chris R.(sikeospi) kindly brought a religious conservative news presenter's video to us.



The presenter has taken the phrase "fake news" and applied it to news stories containing claims she considers false.

The effect is to mislead her viewers into thinking that "fake news" means "false claims being presented in a news report".

The responses of conservatives on that thread were unfortunately in line with this misunderstanding of meaning.

For those of you who would rather read than watch I've included a very rough transcription of the video below.

What is being fought over around Trump is, in part, whether Americans can be trusted with the tools necessary to be able to think for themselves.

This "news presenter" is acting to deny to religious conservatives concepts which might allow critical thinking.

Or to put it simply she is trying to fill their heads with shit.

In a democracy, where informed and intelligent voters are required as a central part of the governing process, such action looks like treason - it harms and weakens the country by making the selection of representatives more random, making less optimal government more likely, making the country easier prey to destructive forces.

The five most egregious fake news stories of 2016
1.
BLM "cops shoot black men because they're black"
LW: "on our true scale this one rates false"
...
LW: "guilty of this fake new story are ... main stream media, ... and Barack Obama"

2.
LW: "From the mainstream media", "Donald Trump molests women"
"On the truth scale this one is false"
"guilty of this fake new story are ... main stream media, every liberal in America ..."

3.
LW: "This one from the sore losers on the left", "Trump's election causes spike in hate crimes ..."
"On our truth scale this one is false"
"Almost every hate-crime the media has reported has ended up to be a hoax."
...

4.
LW: "This one direct from President Obama"
"The Iran deal would prevent Iran from getting their hands on a nuclear weapon"
"it was only this year that ... himself admitted that all the talking points about the deal were made up as a way to feed the deal to the American people without us actually knowing what was in it"
"On our truth scale this one is false"
"Guilty of this fake news story - Ben Rose, President Barack Obama, Hilary Clinton, ..."

5.
LW: ... Obamacare ...
"lie, lie, lie"
...
...


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Pinook wrote:
Over on thread "fake news"
RSPer Chris R.(sikeospi) kindly brought a religious conservative news presenter's video to us.



The presenter has taken the phrase "fake news" and applied it to news stories containing claims she considers false.

The effect is to mislead her viewers into thinking that "fake news" means "false claims being presented in a news report".

The responses of conservatives on that thread were unfortunately in line with this misunderstanding of meaning.

For those of you who would rather read than watch I've included a very rough transcription of the video below.

What is being fought over around Trump is, in part, whether Americans can be trusted with the tools necessary to be able to think for themselves.

This "news presenter" is acting to deny to religious conservatives concepts which might allow critical thinking.

Or to put it simply she is trying to fill their heads with shit.

In a democracy, where informed and intelligent voters are required as a central part of the governing process, such action looks like treason - it harms and weakens the country by making the selection of representatives more random, making less optimal government more likely, making the country easier prey to destructive forces.

The five most egregious fake news stories of 2016
1.
BLM "cops shoot black men because they're black"
LW: "on our true scale this one rates false"
...
LW: "guilty of this fake new story are ... main stream media, ... and Barack Obama"

2.
LW: "From the mainstream media", "Donald Trump molests women"
"On the truth scale this one is false"
"guilty of this fake new story are ... main stream media, every liberal in America ..."

3.
LW: "This one from the sore losers on the left", "Trump's election causes spike in hate crimes ..."
"On our truth scale this one is false"
"Almost every hate-crime the media has reported has ended up to be a hoax."
...

4.
LW: "This one direct from President Obama"
"The Iran deal would prevent Iran from getting their hands on a nuclear weapon"
"it was only this year that ... himself admitted that all the talking points about the deal were made up as a way to feed the deal to the American people without us actually knowing what was in it"
"On our truth scale this one is false"
"Guilty of this fake news story - Ben Rose, President Barack Obama, Hilary Clinton, ..."

5.
LW: ... Obamacare ...
"lie, lie, lie"
...
...




Back in the day it was not called "Fake News". It was called "Propaganda"
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surprise REAL NEWS: "bottle blonde Bimbo gonna B-I-M-B-O-!" Sorry, Hon--NO "Puss*GRAB* for YOU, perhaps, in Putin Russia? He NO 'picky'
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#5 wasn't even from 2016!
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Kumitedad wrote:


Back in the day it was not called "Fake News". It was called "Propaganda"


Maybe there's a difference in intent? A fair amount of the fake news has no politics but is particularly venal money making schemes.
 
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49xjohn wrote:

#5 wasn't even from 2016!

Please stay focussed on what is important here.

I can see no danger to US democracy from her using Obamacare as a point.

Changing the meaning of "fake news" from,
"a news report that presents fabricated content as factual",
to,
"a news report that presented claims that have later been falsified",
is going to make it very difficult for her devoted viewers to understand the well-founded concerns about "fake news".

They will probably miss out on the fact that they have been fed propaganda/misinformation/disinformation.`

And may continue to believe in the propaganda and act and vote accordingly.


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Words need to have actual meanings if communication is to happen.

If "you" don't want communication to happen then confusing the meaning of words and phrases is a good tool.

Examples:
1] "Propaganda" is a German word. It entered English in WWII because Goebbels was the Minister of Propaganda (= Min. of Information). Since the Allies saw what he said as mostly lies the word came to mean "statements that are lies that 'you' want to get out there".
. . Now the dictionary says that it can refer to true statements. This usage should not be accepted. We need a good word for "statements that are lies that 'you' want to get out there", there are already enough words for true statements.

2] Equating "fake news" with "false* news" is a new one.
. * . False in "your" opinion or in your universe. I.e. not false in reality or just false.
. . Fake news is a new phrase to mean "Stories that are made up that are presented [often on-line] in a way that makes them seem to be coming from a real news source."
. . Conflation what you think is false news with the phrase "fake news" is an attempt to confuse communication.

There are many others. It is a tool of dishonest people and those who are at war with dishonest people and feel that they must fight fire with fire.
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49xjohn wrote:

#5 wasn't even from 2016!
blush Before 2016 HER "orgasms" were also "fake news" as if you could even tell it ensued!
 
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I don't believe you need to worry about the report linked to in the OP. I have it on "good authority" that it's nothing more than "tittytainment" (which has nothing to do with the presenter being a woman apparently).
 
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deadkenny wrote:
I don't believe you need to worry about the report linked to in the OP. I have it on "good authority" that it's nothing more than "tittytainment" (which has nothing to do with the presenter being a woman apparently). :what:


You appear to accept that "The five most egregious fake news stories of 2016" functions to keep it's viewers in a stupor. As that is what tittytainment does.

What is happening on this thread is that the way that stupor is being created is being examined.

And the likely effects of that stupor on American government and society made explicit.

That these things are not of concern to you is disappointing to me. However it is not a crime to hold America in disregard.
And so I defend your right to hold America in disregard.
 
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hyperbolus wrote:
Watch any news channel for 10 minutes recently and you will hear them chant the phrase "fake news" repeatedly. It seems like they are trying to make you think a certain way. Who "they" is, is not clear to me.


I distinguish between;
trying to make people think certain ways using news reports,
and,
twisting the concept of "fake news" so to deny listeners the tools to consider the propaganda/mis/disinformation they have been fed recently.

The first is a major problem of bias and activism,
the second is attacking the possibility of discussion and mutual understanding in a nation which depends on the possibility of discussion and mutual understanding.



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Right-Wing Media Are Using The Term "Fake News" To Attack Credible, Reputable News Sources


> Excerpts from the December 9, 2016 Media Matters For America report entitled:

Right-Wing Media Are Using The TermFake NewsTo Attack Credible, Reputable News Sources



Some right-wing media figures and outlets are attempting to twist and confuse the term “fake news” -- a specific phenomenon in which information is clearly and demonstrably fabricated, then packaged and distributed to appear as a legitimate source of news -- to attack outlets they disagree with. By redefining fake news in their own terms and claiming that reporting by outlets such as The New York Times and CNN constitute fake news, right-wing media figures are bolstering President-elect Donald Trump’s continued efforts to delegitimize mainstream news sources and their reporting, and muddling real concerns about fake news used as a weapon of active disinformation.

As public discussions about fake news reach critical mass, right-wing media figures and outlets have attempted to redefine “fake news” completely, downplaying the problem it poses. Rush Limbaugh claimed that fake news is largely “satire and parody that liberals don’t understand because they don’t have a sense of humor.” The Washington Free Beacon’s Bill McMorris described fake news as “whatever people living in the liberal bubble determine to be believed by the right.”

Other conservatives are even using fake news to describe reporting from credible news outlets with which they disagree. Fringe right-wing conspiracy site Infowars.com declared that “The mainstream media is the primary source of the most harmful, most inaccurate news ever,” and included outlets such as The New York Times, The Washington Post, CNN, ABC News, CBS News, and Politico (and Media Matters, for good measure) on their “full list of fake news outlets.” Fox contributor Newt Gingrich lamented the Times’ reporting on the fake news phenomenon, arguing, “The idea of The New York Times being worried about fake news is really weird. The New York Times is fake news.”

Conservative radio host Laura Ingraham -- a contender for Trump’s press secretary -- lashed out at CNN while appearing on Fox News’ Hannity, stating “the folks over at CNN” and “the kind of little games they’re playing are so transparent … they’re the fake news organizations.”

While there isn’t an official, universally accepted definition of fake news, a variety of outlets and experts across the ideological spectrum have identified common themes. BuzzFeed’s Craig Silverman, one of the first to report frequently and extensively on the fake news phenomenon, defines fake news as “false … stories from hoax sites and hyperpartisan blogs.”

The New York Times’ Sabrina Tavernese wrote that, “Narrowly defined, ‘fake news’ means a made-up story with an intention to deceive, often geared toward getting clicks."

David Mikkelson, the founder of the fact-checking website Snopes.com, describes fake news as “completely fabricated information that has little or no intersection with real-world events.” Mikkelson goes on to explain, “not all bad news reporting is ‘fake,’ and that distinction should be kept clear.”

Slate senior technology writer Will Oremus argues fake news is “fabricated,” “sensational stories” that imitate “the style and appearance of real news articles.”

Fox media analyst Howard Kurtz defines fake news as “made-up-stuff being merchandized for clicks and profits,” clarifying that he doesn’t “mean the major media stories that some ... find unfair or exaggerated.”

And CNN and Conservative Review’s Amanda Carpenter wrote that “fake news is malicious, false information that somehow becomes credible” often “printed on what appears to be a professional looking website.” Carpenter also distinguished fake news from “commentary that never purported to be straight news in the first place” or “political speech someone doesn’t happen to agree with.”

None of these definitions are even remotely similar to how right-wing media figures are trying to redefine fake news.

Right-wing media’s attempt to conflate fake news with reporting from legitimate journalistic institutions feeds into a larger conservative effort, led by President-elect Trump, to delegitimize mainstream media outlets. Trump, who has long waged a war on the press, has consistently expressed his contempt for journalists and news organizations and violated the norms of any President or President-elect when it comes to his relations with the media.

During the month of November, Trump repeatedly attacked media outlets, calling The New York Times “dishonest,” decrying the “the crooked media” for investigating his unprecedented business conflicts of interest, and suggesting that CNN has gotten “worse” since the election. In a December 7, 2016 interview on NBC’s Today, Trump admitted he uses Twitter to bypass the media and “dishonest reporters.”

Some experts have suggested Trump’s attacks on the media are part of a concerted effort to discredit journalists and outlets and thereby “inoculate” himself from reporting that could be damaging. On CNN’s Reliable Sources, former Time Inc. Editor-in-Chief John Huey argued that Trump used “demagogic techniques” that “smack of authoritarianism” during the campaign because “the media poses a real threat to him.”

Attacking mainstream outlets as “fake” is the latest step in a conservative-media-fueled campaign to delegitimize credible news sources -- a dangerous path in a media landscape where people are already too willing to accept actual fake news, but are hard-pressed to believe real reporting.


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Nice find Steve.

This is more widespread than I realised.

You got material considering the effects on your nation of "efforts to delegitimize mainstream news sources and their reporting, and muddling real concerns about fake news used as a weapon of active disinformation"?
 
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Pinook wrote:
Nice find Steve.

This is more widespread than I realised.

You got material considering the effects on your nation of "efforts to delegitimize mainstream news sources and their reporting, and muddling real concerns about fake news used as a weapon of active disinformation"?

Not me, you mean Shreve.
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Steve1501 wrote:
Pinook wrote:
Nice find Steve.

This is more widespread than I realised.

You got material considering the effects on your nation of "efforts to delegitimize mainstream news sources and their reporting, and muddling real concerns about fake news used as a weapon of active disinformation"?

Not me, you mean Shreve.

Don't you know the meaning of "propriety"?!






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Strangely I still get to drive. And I have to vote too.

Now what am I meant to be focussed on?

Ahhhhhh yes.

A thousand apologies.

James, you got impressive critiques considering the effects on your nation of "efforts to delegitimize mainstream news sources and their reporting, and muddling real concerns about fake news used as a weapon of active disinformation"?

 
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I'll get upset about the fake news/post-fact era after those fuckers can sufficiently demonstrate that they ever gave a shit about the truth before.
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Pinook wrote:
Strangely I still get to drive. And I have to vote too.

Now what am I meant to be focussed on?

Ahhhhhh yes.

A thousand apologies.

James, you got impressive critiques considering the effects on your nation of "efforts to delegitimize mainstream news sources and their reporting, and muddling real concerns about fake news used as a weapon of active disinformation"?

In a strangely ironic sense, Donald Trump led the fake news revolution with his descent into Birtherism in early 2011.

Trump makes up bullshit all the time and lies every day and has thus set the example for prevaricating with all deliberate mendacious intention of malicious forethought.


 
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LightRider wrote:
I'll get upset about the fake news/post-fact era after those fuckers can sufficiently demonstrate that they ever gave a shit about the truth before.

That sounds like half of a good idea.
The bit about not getting upset.

You want a democracy in your nation with leaders voted in by people who have clear concepts and language with which to think about and discuss things?

Or do you want political groupings competing to have the most crippling influence on the thought processes of their followers?

You get free choice on this.
But only as long as you've got clear concepts and language.
Once they're gone your free choice is gone.
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galad2003 wrote:
......
It's one thing to type that shit in chit chat but if you want to have an honest intellectual conversation about something such as politics people need to understand what you are saying. We have had huge arguments in this forum because people's definition of words differs yet your moronic ass is making up a whole new language and you expect us to respond?
....


The above is from an exchange between Chris and Grognads.
It's obvious to me that Chris is right - if you want to have an honest conversation then you need to have common understandings of meanings.

This seems doubly true if there is conflict between the people.
 
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