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Subject: 3 quick ones... rss

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Alexandre Gadoua
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Quick question,

Lets say a German squad tries to run for cover and a US squad op fires (one machine gun figure with two infantry men). The German is at 5 hexes.

A- the US player decides to op fire only with his MG and hits him twice (rolls a 5 and a 6) : The MG squad isn't fatigued but the Germans squad has to stop his movement (so basically, I could consider it fatigued). Is this right ?

B- And if the German squad (now with two infantry left) had 2 more movement points, can they still take them (if I was wrong before)... and if they do continue running for cover... can the MG fire again since they are not on the same hexe ?

C- Another quick one... A squad with a mortar crew and two infantry, when the mortar fires, is the whole squad fatigued ? Or can the infantry men still shoot (obviously, they can't advance since the mortar crew fired).


Alex,
 
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Mike zebrowski
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bobino wrote:
A- the US player decides to op fire only with his MG and hits him twice (rolls a 5 and a 6) : The MG squad isn't fatigued but the Germans squad has to stop his movement (so basically, I could consider it fatigued). Is this right ?


Yes and No.

The Machine Gun isn't fatigued. (page 37, column 2, "Rapid Fire", paragraph 1)

The Germans can continue their movement as it was a Normal attack. (page 19, column 2)

Quote:
B- And if the German squad (now with two infantry left) had 2 more movement points, can they still take them (if I was wrong before)... and if they do continue running for cover... can the MG fire again since they are not on the same hexe ?


No (page 37, column 2, "Rapid Fire", paragraph 3)

Quote:
Another quick one... A squad with a mortar crew and two infantry, when the mortar fires, is the whole squad fatigued ? Or can the infantry men still shoot (obviously, they can't advance since the mortar crew fired).


The whole squad is fatigued.
 
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David desJardins
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bobino wrote:
A- the US player decides to op fire only with his MG and hits him twice (rolls a 5 and a 6) : The MG squad isn't fatigued but the Germans squad has to stop his movement (so basically, I could consider it fatigued). Is this right ?


No. A unit hit by Op Fire must stop moving if it is pinned, disrupted, or damaged (p. 19). Only vehicles can be damaged (p. 28). If the machine gun had chosen Suppressive Fire, then it could have pinned the German squad (p. 29). But just inflicting casualties with normal fire doesn't count.

Quote:
B- And if the German squad (now with two infantry left) had 2 more movement points, can they still take them (if I was wrong before)... and if they do continue running for cover... can the MG fire again since they are not on the same hexe ?


The MG squad can't fire again at the same German squad (p. 32).

Quote:
C- Another quick one... A squad with a mortar crew and two infantry, when the mortar fires, is the whole squad fatigued ? Or can the infantry men still shoot (obviously, they can't advance since the mortar crew fired).


The squad is fatigued.
 
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Alexandre Gadoua
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I think Mike has the right answer. Squads can take hits (from a NORMAL attack) and still continue running for cover... It just doesn't feel right that a unit taking a hit (normal attack) would stop their movement (like dears with a flashlight aiming at them).

If a suppressive attack pines or disrupts a squad (hence attacking their moral) it seems more apropriate that they would stop moving since they would be in « shock » (a bit like Tom Hanks in Saving Private Ryan on the beach when he just looses it for a couple of seconds.

The rules on page 19 (left column) are probably wrong. The « ...or damaged as a result of the... » should maybe of read « or damaged light vehicules as a result of... ».

If you read the right column on the same page, second paragraph, it is pretty clear... « If the attack scores no hits (in a suppressive attack), or if a squad takes casualties as the result of a normal attack, the active unit may continue moving ».

Hope our « debate » helps other gamers.

Alex,
 
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Robert F-C
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Mike Zebrowski wrote:

The Germans can continue their movement as it was a Normal attack. (page 19, column 2)


What! surprise Boy that section is badly written. The first part of the text says clearly without any qualification:

Quote:
If the active unit becomes pinned, disrupted, or damaged as a result of the Op Fire attack, it is immediately fatigued

(emphasis from rule book)

That's how we've been playing it - normal attacks stop movement as well. The following qualifying point almost reads as contradictory to the first.

Quote:
If the attack scores no hits, or if a squad takes casualties as the
result of a normal attack, the active unit may continue moving.


Now I see that the reference to "damaged" only applies to vehicles - but that definitely needs to be put into the (hopefully pending) rule errata/clarifications.

Well, that completely changes the dynamics of the scenarios we've played --- and in the last two scenarios we played it would have only further aided the winner (i.e., the attacker).

Not your fault obviously Mike. Thanks a ton for clarifying it.

On the topic of pinning squads, I want to check that a fresh squad that has been pinned with a suppresive attack (not due to Op fire) still needs to be 'activated' at some point with the "Fatigue Unit" action, right?

--- RFC ---
1 1 1

PS. I think it's time to start a ToI rules clarification thread.
 
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Mike zebrowski
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WhereAreTheBlackDice wrote:
On the topic of pinning squads, I want to check that a fresh squad that has been pinned with a suppresive attack (not due to Op fire) still needs to be 'activated' at some point with the "Fatigue Unit" action, right?


Yes and no.

The unit still can be activated, but if there is an officer in the hex, the squad can still attack.

Mike Z
 
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