James Davis
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Another under apriciated part of this site is the strategy articles. Ive had a great time reading alot of them and they really help. People put alot of effort into these articles but for no reward. Lets get strategy articles geekmodded like session reports and reviews.
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See also: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/162713
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James Davis
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I knew I saw a thread about it before, I just couldnt find it.
 
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Mendon Dornbrook
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I, too, would like to see strategy articles incentivized! I don't feel that there are enough thorough strategy articles on BGG. For games like Tigris and Euphraties, featured on BGG nonetheless, there is often only one vaguely substantive strategy article. Often there is none. Most strategy articles are pithless attempts at strategic mendicancy. I for one wholly support including strategy articles in GeekMod and giving them their own place on the Front Page. I feel that they are more relevant than Session reports.
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William Crispin
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Sounds good.
 
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Walt
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mdornbrook wrote:
I, too, would like to see strategy articles incentivized! I don't feel that there are enough thorough strategy articles on BGG. ... I feel that they are more relevant than Session reports.

Yes! Hidden Gem will have pictures. It will certainly have a session report, "We played and the score was 3-1!" (or something similarly vacuous). It will likely have a review, "It's really k00l!" (or something similarly inane.) But will it have a strategy article? HAH! Dip-freaking-plomacy has only two strategy "articles"--both merely questions--granted a grand total of [drumroll!] zip, zero, nada GG!! Yes, we are talking Diplomacy, nigh on 50 years old, for which I have something like a 20 page strategy guide published by Avalon Hill (the real deal, not Hasbro).

Look, this site is about playing games! If something beyond rules is more fundamental than strategy, I can't think of it. Certainly, images, reviews, and sessions are important to a playing/buying decision of a game; but strategy is extremely important, especially for Geek games! I could not possibly have gotten a decent handle on Puerto Rico without Alexfrog's astoundingly brilliant strategy articles about the game. Those were--maybe!--adequately compensated, but that's the number one game! Given all the vagarities of BGG ratings, doesn't any game in the top 100 deserve that level of treatment? Doesn't any game in the top 500 deserve some strategy articles?

[!rant (continue ranting until success!)]

At my local gaming group, I can see games. I can hear about sessions of games. I can ask for reviews of games. But, well thought-out strategic insight is extremely rare--and players willing to share that insight even rarer! Yes, we could get some clueless strategies--as we get clueless pictures, reports, and reviews (I support +0 GG awards for them all, for the cases where the item is technically in compliance with standards, but actually nearly useless.). Still, a good, well-founded strategy article can take far more time and effort than the most precise photograph or the most detailed review.

ALL: Please reply, thumb, and tip the original poster as much as you can--this is what keeps the article on the front page and attracts Admin attention!

[And for the record, the above is reduced from the normal large font size.]
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Mendon Dornbrook
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Hey Tall Walt,
There are a number of games where I've gone looking for discussions of strategy and didn't find anything meaningful. T&E jumps to mind as the first game that I could think of, but I also remember searching for dip strategy. I figured that Diplomacy lacks strategy discussion here because it's all over the internet. But it's worthwhile to go through some games and post games that are missing strategy articles. It will help keep this thread active. I'll start with a list of games that I own that I am dissatisfied with the quality of the strategy articles and am not qualified to write one myself.

Attika, 1 lame "anybody?" post. Thanks to Friendless for making it vaguely worth reading

Axis & Allies, 2 posts, one for US & UK the other for Japan. They do not represent the full range of this game at all.

Chess, No substantive discussion (1 post)

Iliad, a card game with a number of tactical choices to be informed by strategy, 1 post? ...

Power Grid hey! it actually has some good strategic discussion!

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You mean there is no incentive to write up strategy points and add for the pleasure of our community? Harumph!! Attention must be paid! I'm with you guys! Aldie!?
 
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mdornbrook wrote:
Power Grid hey! it actually has some good strategic discussion!


Ok, let's look at those in hot order noting thread thumbs and total GG award as shown in the thread:
19 thumbs, 0.25 GG
9 thumbs, 0.00 GG (by Alexfrog, one of BGG's best strategists IMO)
3 thumbs, 0.00 GG
3 thumbs, 0.00 GG
3 thumbs, 0.00 GG
3 thumbs, 0.00 GG
3 thumbs, 0.00 GG
2 thumbs, 0.00 GG
2 thumbs, 0.00 GG
2 thumbs, 0.00 GG
1 thumbs, 0.00 GG
1 thumbs, 0.00 GG
0 thumbs, 0.00 GG
0 thumbs, 0.00 GG
0 thumbs, 0.00 GG
0 thumbs, 0.00 GG
0 thumbs, 0.00 GG
0 thumbs, 0.00 GG
0 thumbs, 0.00 GG
0 thumbs, 0.00 GG
-----------------
50 thumbs, 0.25 GG

Now, to be fair, two objections arise to this survey. First, these articles were not GM'd so some are just discussions or may be poor quality. Second is that Power Grid predates the current GG awards system, so some GG gifts may be hidden and not attributed.

Here are some 2007 games that occur to me as deserving of strategy articles--at least the second objection should be less important:
Caylus Magna Carta Nothing
Notre Dame 1 article, 15 thumbs, 0.00 GG
Tide of Iron 1 article, 1 thumb, 0.00 GG
Age of Empires III: The Age of Discovery 2 articles, 0 thumbs, 0.00 GG
Age of Discovery 1 article, 5 thumbs, 0.00 GG

This presents a dismal picture of strategy discussion on BGG, and I think it argues as strongly as possible--given the short time of the more trackable GG awards--that the conventional position of BGG, "Strategy articles will be generated and awarded by users tipping GG," is not generating articles or rewarding those generated.


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Kris Verbeeck
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I will add a comment so it stays on top in the hot list.

However I find that modding on such a thing requires a lot of knowledge.

1) you have to be very familiar with the game.
2) you have to know what the other Strategy articles have to offer. (similar strategies, too blurry)

I think the strategy article could be written as a session report.
I don't think this would be an ideal situation but this could work right now.
Often the session reports on wargames include good strategy tips and reflections on how the game was approached. I'm missing that in eurogames session reports.

IMO only people who have logged plays on that game could mod on a strategy article. if it was approached as a new item besides images,reviews,session reports and data.
If I mod on a review I look at whats new in there. I compare it with other reviews on the same game.
Some people are really good in explaining the game,some reviews make me want to buy the game. But then again some don't.
i will in most cases approve the session reports and reviews. I will however use the tool of variable rewards.

even if i approve something i will add comments to give feedback on these things while modding.

To get back on the subject. i think it will be very hard to mod on a strategy article on a game that you haven't played. I can mod on a session report on a game I haven't played. If it tells me how the game is played and what happened during play.
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Sounds like a good idea. Strategy articles are among the most difficult to write so should be rewarded on par with reviews, IMO. Requests for specific strategy tips can still be made in the general thread.

Expect this change to be implemented in the near future, possibly as soon as tomorrow (but no promises.)

-MMM
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Matthew M
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KrisVerbeeck wrote:

To get back on the subject. i think it will be very hard to mod on a strategy article on a game that you haven't played. I can mod on a session report on a game I haven't played. If it tells me how the game is played and what happened during play.


I don't think any strategy article mods need to be familiar with the game. They can approve or reject the article based upon the quality of the writing and reward it based on perceived effort. The discussion generated by the article by interested readers will do the job of analyzing the strategy suggestions the author puts forth.

-MMM
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Mendon Dornbrook
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MMM wrote:
I don't think any strategy article mods need to be familiar with the game.


I agree with this. All that the moderating system will do will keep out junk posts and spam and reward users for putting in the effort. We don't need quality assurance beyond a basal level (if we did, moderating everything else would be much more rigid).
 
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KrisVerbeeck wrote:
IMO only people who have logged plays on that game could mod on a strategy article.

I agree with the idea behind this, but I just don't log games on BGG: it would take too long and screw up my recently-viewed list. How about putting in the GM guidelines for strategy articles, "Skip this article if you are not familiar with the game." It seems to me we have to trust the judgement of the moderators in any case, and a play or two of a complex game like Puerto Rico isn't really enough to evaluate a strategy article.

On the other hand, maybe the standard is that the article is understandable. If the strategy isn't optimal, it at least presents a starting point for discussion. That discussion will allow the presentation and reward of opposing views. (I recall moderating a very good review I disagreed with, so I wrote a counter-point review; both were approved and, I think, useful. I wouldn't have written the counter-point review without the initial review; and neither of us were right or wrong, but just representing different approaches to the game.)
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Octavian wrote:
KrisVerbeeck wrote:

To get back on the subject. i think it will be very hard to mod on a strategy article on a game that you haven't played. I can mod on a session report on a game I haven't played. If it tells me how the game is played and what happened during play.


I don't think any strategy article mods need to be familiar with the game. They can approve or reject the article based upon the quality of the writing and reward it based on perceived effort. The discussion generated by the article by interested readers will do the job of analyzing the strategy suggestions the author puts forth.

-MMM


Another problem poses itself if this will go through modding.
You can earn a lot of GG by posting strategy articles. If the modder just has to look at the quality of writing and does not have to know anything about other strategies for the game the next thing you will see is that a lot of old strategy articles will simply be rewritten and posted just for the GG. Unlike with pictures that you can decline for being to similar or wrong game. You can make those decisions even if you don't know the game. There is no reason to decline a strategy report.
Most modders find it hard to decline a review or session report. The percentage of approvals is high in the nineties. I can't see any strategy article not being approved. Even if it is a bad strategy it tells you that you can't play the game that way and therefor it is an interesting read.
I am just saying that it will be very hard to decline a strategy article . If it is so hard to decline why should it go through the modding system at all.

Added this idea after writing my entire reply .
One possible way is that for the first fifty thumbs on a strategy article the system rewards the poster with 10 cents for every thumb.



I modded on a lot of things and modding is my number one source to get some geekgold. I have seen pictures and reviews posted over and over again until they got approved. Or one review for three different games. Sometimes the caption with pictures even tells you that you have to approve it....

I would gladly mod on strategy articles for free.
Or receive GG for it that I can only use for tipping.

If we truly value the strategy articles like we claim we do. Why don't we tip those strategy articles more or even thumb them.

 
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Is that a problem? You can make as much gg right now posting reviews. Is review plagerism a rampant problem that I am not aware of?

If someone gets caught plagerizing for gg we'll find out if the suspension of their posting privileges is worth an extra microbadge. I'm guessing it isn't.

-MMM
 
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