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Subject: Are these games too similar to get all of them? rss

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Leo Han
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Currently, I'm trying to minimize the amount of games I have so I've been creating categories and buying only one or two games for each.

The four games I'm considering atm are Castles of Burgundy, Concordia, Keyflower, and Viticulture. Are these games too similar to justify purchasing all of them? Which stands at the top of the list?

CoB: involves dice to select actions
Keyflower: tile laying, bidding
Concordia: feels like Catan 2.0
Viticulture: Worker placement (I worry about the nontension people mentioned about this game)
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Claudio Coppini
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I can't say about Concordia as I haven't played it, but the other 3 are nothing alike.

They are all amazing games and don't overlap with each other gameplay-wise.

For me CoB would be at the top.
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Matthew Soares
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Drugo81 wrote:
I can't say about Concordia as I haven't played it, but the other 3 are nothing alike.

They are all amazing games and don't overlap with each other gameplay-wise.

For me CoB would be at the top.


Same here... Played all of these except for Concordia and I will agree that the others are nothing alike in how they play and in how you use strategy and planning to play.
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Steve
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Concordia doesn't feel anything like Catan or those other 3 games.

Viticulture feels like a lot of worker placement games, but with poorly balanced cards.
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Ryan St. John
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I've played (and currently own) all 4 of these titles. I think they are all fantastic and worth owning however if pushed I will rank them for you as such:

1. Castles of Burgundy - (Must own IMHO. Great at all player counts especially 2.)

2. Viticulture - Get the Essential Edition (might be the only version in print right now anyway.) As far as worker placements go, almost a must own again IMHO.

3. Keyflower - Had a great time playing it. One play only so far. I expect to enjoy even more with more plays.

4. Concordia - Played only once with 2. Enjoyed it but feel it will play better at a higher player count.
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Maarten D. de Jong
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leohan wrote:
Currently, I'm trying to minimize the amount of games I have so I've been creating categories and buying only one or two games for each.

Bad idea. You'll end up inventing categories just to justify that one purchase, or conversely to avoid purchasing that game you really, honestly like. Stick with what you like, it's easier.

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Are these games too similar to justify purchasing all of them?

They are nothing alike. So by your reasoning, you could get them all. (Concordia is not Catan 2.0, by the way.)

Quote:
Which stands at the top of the list?

That depends on what you think is important in a game.
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maf man
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hmm... can you give us a better scope? What number of games would you like to stay around? How diverse do you want your games? In what ways should the be different (mechanically, weight, theme)?
They all share similar euro theme/feeling. You defined those games by their playing mechanic, have you taken a look at games with the similar mechanics but different in other aspects like theme?
Yes they are different, and I think your fine, but not enough for my tastes if were talking 20 games.
 
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Leo Han
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cymric wrote:
leohan wrote:
Currently, I'm trying to minimize the amount of games I have so I've been creating categories and buying only one or two games for each.

Bad idea. You'll end up inventing categories just to justify that one purchase, or conversely to avoid purchasing that game you really, honestly like. Stick with what you like, it's easier.

Quote:
Are these games too similar to justify purchasing all of them?

They are nothing alike. So by your reasoning, you could get them all. (Concordia is not Catan 2.0, by the way.)

Quote:
Which stands at the top of the list?

That depends on what you think is important in a game.


More than devising specific categories, it's more like trying to make sure two games aren't too alike. For every game on my wishlist, I actually don't put a pros list, and just add tons of cons to the comments. If I feel that a game is good enough to look beyond those cons, I will consider purchasing it.

Could you elaborate a bit more on Concordia? I keep hearing the Catan comment so I would love another opinion on the game.

Most important is replayability, strategy, and enough interaction to allow a group to enjoy it together (both casual and competitive).


mafman6 wrote:
hmm... can you give us a better scope? What number of games would you like to stay around? How diverse do you want your games? In what ways should the be different (mechanically, weight, theme)?
They all share similar euro theme/feeling. You defined those games by their playing mechanic, have you taken a look at games with the similar mechanics but different in other aspects like theme?
Yes they are different, and I think your fine, but not enough for my tastes if were talking 20 games.


I don't want to go over 25 atm, since I know I'll never get to them. I don't think games have to be so diverse that no two can share similarities. It's just that I don't want to feel like I'm playing the same game with a different theme. I've actually looked through at least 300 games so far within the last month and these are the four I'm considering above the rest. About 50 games have been added and removed from my want list since then.
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Curt Carpenter
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cymric wrote:
Bad idea.

+1

In general, you don't need to worry about whether games are too similar to each other. The only case that really happens is games that explicitly reimplement previous games, aka "re-themes".

If you like spy movies, you don't worry about whether James Bond is too similar to Bourne. In fact, you watch all movies in both series.
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leohan wrote:


I don't want to go over 25 atm, since I know I'll never get to them. I don't think games have to be so diverse that no two can share similarities. It's just that I don't want to feel like I'm playing the same game with a different theme. I've actually looked through at least 300 games so far within the last month and these are the four I'm considering above the rest. About 50 games have been added and removed from my want list since then.

If you're new to gaming and you want to stick below 25, I would advise against getting four games you haven't played all at once (unless money isn't an issue, and you don't mind buy-to-try ).

Since you stated you want interaction, I'd suggest double-checking Castles of Burgundy, as from all I've seen about that game it sounds like pretty much multiplayer solitaire (some interaction, but minimal). Keyflower has a fair amount of interaction. However, if you want conflict, these aren't the kinds of games I would advise (and in that way, they are similar). EDIT: actually, Keyflower has some conflict too.
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Kirk Thomas
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Concordia is superb - easy to explain and grasp, relatively quick play, just enough interaction, and some expansions that add to the replayability and scaling.

Keyflower is also superb, but more to explain, a bit longer to play, and highly interactive. Personally, it is right in my sweet spot - I'd buy it first from your list of four. It also scales beautifully from 2p-6p

CoB is a bit boring in-person for me, and I would never play 4p in person. I play it a ton online, and it's a very popular game for a reason.

I'd buy many worker-placement games (or other genres for that matter) before Viticulture. Just not compelling in my mind.
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David B
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leohan wrote:


Could you elaborate a bit more on Concordia? I keep hearing the Catan comment so I would love another opinion on the game.



The centerpiece of Catan is the trading and bartering with other players. Also prominent is playing the odds of dice to generate resources. Concordia does not have either of these elements. At all. Concordia is not totally multiplayer solitaire. There is indirect interaction. But there is a lot of interaction in Catan.
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Aaron Edwards
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leohan wrote:
Currently, I'm trying to minimize the amount of games I have so I've been creating categories and buying only one or two games for each.

The four games I'm considering atm are Castles of Burgundy, Concordia, Keyflower, and Viticulture. Are these games too similar to justify purchasing all of them? Which stands at the top of the list?

CoB: involves dice to select actions
Keyflower: tile laying, bidding
Concordia: feels like Catan 2.0
Viticulture: Worker placement (I worry about the nontension people mentioned about this game)


I haven't played Keyflower, but speaking for the others, they are not very alike at all. With Viticulture, I wonder about the lack of tension comment. I actually find Viticulture to be a fairly tight worker placement game (i.e. it is difficult to do what you want to do) so I think the tension is actually fairly high for a Euro game. But I do agree with the comment earlier that the cards are unbalanced. I'm also curious about the notion that Concordia is Catan 2.0. I don't think Concordia is anything like Catan; Concordia has very little randomness and does not have any negotiation element, and no trading among players. I guess conceptually you are building houses on regions and then producing on those regions, but it works much different than Catan. Anyway...I think you're safe owning everything on the list. My favorites order would be Concordia, CoB, Viticulture. But they are all good games.
 
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Adam Mitschelen
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They are similar in the sense that they are all 1-2 hour (roughly) competitive resource management (loosely) games. They are all certainly worth owning, but for a small collection, they may end up filling the same niche.

I'd recommend getting one of those (Concordia is my favorite) and making sure you have a well rounded group of games before getting a second from that list. FUSE, 7 Wonders Duel, Valley of the Kings, and Codenames come to mind.
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Chris Ferejohn
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curtc wrote:
cymric wrote:
Bad idea.

+1

In general, you don't need to worry about whether games are too similar to each other. The only case that really happens is games that explicitly reimplement previous games, aka "re-themes".

If you like spy movies, you don't worry about whether James Bond is too similar to Bourne. In fact, you watch all movies in both series.


Not a great metaphor - you'd usually prefer to watch a new movie that you expect to like the first time than a movie that you know you like a second time.

That said, most of the time games are not so similar that they feel all that samey. The best option, if available, is of course to find a way to try out a game before buying it (at a game store, meetup, etc.). It's certainly possible you'll play a game and say "it's all right, but it just feels like a worse version of X", but that's usually a sign that you just don't like that game all that much.
 
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Curt Carpenter
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cferejohn wrote:
curtc wrote:
If you like spy movies, you don't worry about whether James Bond is too similar to Bourne. In fact, you watch all movies in both series.

Not a great metaphor

It wasn't a metaphor. It was an analogy.

Analogies are never perfect. But I stand by mine.
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James Wahl
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Mashpotassium wrote:
leohan wrote:


I don't want to go over 25 atm, since I know I'll never get to them. I don't think games have to be so diverse that no two can share similarities. It's just that I don't want to feel like I'm playing the same game with a different theme. I've actually looked through at least 300 games so far within the last month and these are the four I'm considering above the rest. About 50 games have been added and removed from my want list since then.

If you're new to gaming and you want to stick below 25, I would advise against getting four games you haven't played all at once (unless money isn't an issue, and you don't mind buy-to-try ).


I agree. If your collection is going to be that small, just go to a few meetups and game nights, play some games, and buy what you liked playing if 1) you think you can get it played with your non-gamer friends, and/or 2) it's uncommon enough that most gamers won't have it around. Let people who keep huge collections do all of the blind buying, sample the best they have to offer, and create a tiny, perfectly curated shelf of games for yourself.
 
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Timothy Young
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curtc wrote:
In fact, you watch all movies in both series.



Nope. You just watch the good ones from the good series.


[Excuse me while I duck for cover.]
 
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Maarten D. de Jong
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leohan wrote:
More than devising specific categories, it's more like trying to make sure two games aren't too alike.

I see. Well, that's a lot better already.

Quote:
Could you elaborate a bit more on Concordia? I keep hearing the Catan comment so I would love another opinion on the game.

Frankly, I wouldn't even know how people compare this with Catan. The two games have very little to nothing in common. A genuine Catan 2.0 would be Keythedral, but I believe this is impossible to obtain these days. I guess that the walking around on the board and plopping down influence reminds people of the emerging street network in Catan, but that's as far as it goes: a reminder. Resources, actions, player interaction, randomness, how VPs are obtained: it's all different. Concordia is action card selection with a growing set of cards where cards, which do different things, double as VP multipliers for your position on the board; Catan is trading away disadvantageous resources you got through a 2D6 roll, and doing so better than the competition so you obtain more resources.

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Most important is replayability, strategy, and enough interaction to allow a group to enjoy it together (both casual and competitive).

What is the difference? Everybody plays to win, right? In any case the first three games offer what you want. The fourth is Kickstarter-published, and that to me is near-instant disqualification.
 
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Ernie Darby
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rsj77 wrote:
I've played (and currently own) all 4 of these titles. I think they are all fantastic and worth owning however if pushed I will rank them for you as such:

1. Castles of Burgundy - (Must own IMHO. Great at all player counts especially 2.)

2. Viticulture - Get the Essential Edition (might be the only version in print right now anyway.) As far as worker placements go, almost a must own again IMHO.

3. Keyflower - Had a great time playing it. One play only so far. I expect to enjoy even more with more plays.

4. Concordia - Played only once with 2. Enjoyed it but feel it will play better at a higher player count.


Concordia plays really well with do with the Britannia Map. I only use the included maps for 3-4 player games. It's one of my favorite games with a simple rule set but a great game.
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First of all, welcome to BGG and to the hobby.

Many of those games you will find in the game libraries of your FLGS, and I would try them before I would buy them. They are all different from each other, but don't necessarily fill different needs. If you are looking for diversity, you may want to start looking at your collection in terms of what you can do with the games you have; given different gaming groups, moods, or amount of time do you have something that you would like to play? Having fillers, light and short games, medium weights, heavies, and different degrees of confrontation and interaction from MPS (multiplayer solitaire) Euro to Wargame. If you are exploring, and trying to get familiar with different mechanics, you might find yourself very quickly with a list of games that you own but played only once.

You can try all the games you mentioned except for Viticulture at boiteauxjeux.net and boardgamearena.com. Viticulture is a worker placement game, mechanics wise you can find many other games that will give you a sense of what to expect.
 
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Dennis Ku
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Viticulture is amazing. I feel like there is a good deal of tension when playing with more than 2 players. Getting certain actions before your opponents and getting the bonus for choosing it first is a big deal. Also, if you're into that sort of thing, the solitaire deck and rules are fantastic.
 
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I categorize games by times when I would pull them out and play them. In general, I would pull 60-90 minute Euros out in the same scenarios, so I would not buy all 4 of these. In fact, I have owned 3 of them, and traded or sold all but Viticulture (CoB I am content to play on boitejeux.com). Viticulture to me is a quintessential medium weight Euro. In particular, I love that as opposed to Feld games which give you points for everything, Viticulture requires you go through several steps to get points. I also love that it is a race to a certain number of points. I think a lot of the people who don't like it were trying to play it like a Feld game, and failed.

Get the Essential edition. If you get another one, I say Concordia with the Salsa expansion.
 
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Curt Carpenter
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Of the 4 games listed, I bought them all, and Viticulture (Essential Edition) is the only one that after the first play everyone at the table (including me) agreed we would never play again. It was so bad. Embarrassingly bad. At least for gamers who have played a bunch of euros.

Concordia and CoB are the best of the lot. Both highly replayable.
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Samo Oleami
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Depends on what you're after. For me all of them are too similar in offering exactly what I avoid in my games. Keyflower might be an exception (didn't play).

If you're worried about Viticulture having nontension then just you wait till you play a Feld's game. Ahem. Both Concordia and CoB are games which aren't workerplacement, but feel pretty much the same way to me. I also don't recall Concordia having any tension, let alone the interaction level of Catan.

OF course - for people who like this genre of games all of these are VASTLY different.

Just depends on what you like in games. (If you wont like one of these, it's best to avoid them all, me thinks. Maybe Keyflower being an exception).
 
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