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Subject: Humans control token - inconsistent rules? rss

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Anders Bek
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Official full content FAQ:
"If you are playing in a 2-3 player game and you use Airfield to take control of a Region with a Trog token, and then another player moves into the Region, here is what happens: 

1. A battle is formed between the other player and the Trogs. Humans still control the Region. "


Rulebook, page 7 - Foot note 3

"AT THE END OF THE MOVE ACTION,
FOLLOW THESE STEPS IN ORDER:

3. If your Units are present in a Region with no Units belonging to other
players, immediately gain Control of the Region by placing one of your
Control tokens in the Region."

So - if e.g. Machines move into a region with a Human control token and a Trog token, who has control at the end of the move action???
This can be really important considering the Humans' skill that lets them score controlled regions.
 
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James Mathias
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Jumpingfrog wrote:
Official full content FAQ:
"If you are playing in a 2-3 player game and you use Airfield to take control of a Region with a Trog token, and then another player moves into the Region, here is what happens: 

1. A battle is formed between the other player and the Trogs. Humans still control the Region. "


Rulebook, page 7 - Foot note 3

"AT THE END OF THE MOVE ACTION,
FOLLOW THESE STEPS IN ORDER:

3. If your Units are present in a Region with no Units belonging to other
players, immediately gain Control of the Region by placing one of your
Control tokens in the Region."

So - if e.g. Machines move into a region with a Human control token and a Trog token, who has control at the end of the move action???
This can be really important considering the Humans' skill that lets them score controlled regions.


The Humans will maintain control until after the Control Objective is resolved during Battle Resolution. The Human's have absolutely NO way to have control after this resolution, in this scenario, so control will be awarded to the Machines or the Trogs.
 
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Anders Bek
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But how does that fit with the rulebook quote above, that states that the invader places his control token at the end of the move action - i.e. before the battle is resolved?
 
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Fito R
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Trog tokens are resolved before that comes into effect. the rulebook is unclear, hence the FAQ.
 
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Anders Bek
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How does that answer the question? In a 2-3 player game, Trogs are not player units.
Question remains: is the human control token removed when an opponent enters the territory (rulebook p. 7) or after battle resolution (FAQ)?
This is really important with regards to the human Occupation skill!
 
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Fito R
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....we both answered the question. Here is what happens, step by step.

Humans use Airfield, place Control token on region with Trog War Party/Nest.

Machines/Pilgrims enter region, flip token, initiate a Battle with Trogs.

Human control token is still in place.

After the third action, Battle Regions resolve as normal.

If the Machines/Pilgrims win Region Control, they replace the Human Control token with one of their own.

If Trogs win Region Control, the Human Control token is removed.

Hope this clears it up.

E: After re-reading the FAQ, it also says the same thing I just did. Not sure where the confusion comes from.
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Anders Bek
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Not really. I understand that the humans can't be in control after battle resolution. But My question is about control between when the opponent enters the territory and the battle resolution phase.

You and the FAQ says the human token remains until the battle is resolved. But the rule book says the opponent places his control token DURING THE MOVE ACTION. This is an important difference. Seems to me that the FAQ contradicts the rule book rather than clarifies it.
 
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Fito R
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Again, the rulebook is unclear. This game's rulebook is notoriously bad, and there are tons of things that it simply doesn't explain.

That's what the FAQ does. It clarifies the rules.

The FAQ is correct.
The literal interpretation of the rulebook is wrong.
The interpretation of the rulebook where you replace "Units belonging to other players" with "enemy units or Trog tokens" is correct.

Yes, this kinda sucks, I know. Hopefully Portal Games learns to write clearer rules, or doesn't rush their product next time.
 
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Anders Bek
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Gaaa! So we've been playing it wrong in 4 games - because we followed the rule book...

Anyway, thanks!

perhaps "errata" is a more suitable name than "FAQ" with this game... i'm surprised this hasn't come up during play testing.
 
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Fito R
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"Errata" implies a change to the rules. This is not a change, this is what was originally intended, it's just that the rulebook is completely useless. It's not even consistent with itself.

By the way, there IS errata to the game. The Human Skill "Scout" works differently than printed in 2-3 player games. My version of the rulebook has this in it, at least, but not all of them do.
 
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Odyzeus Longbow
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So the area controlled by the airfield can be scored by the humans at any time before the battle resolution?

And vice versa - humans stepping into a region controlled by machines/pilgrims with a trog war party token will NOT be able to score it until battle resolution, since control remains with the original player?
 
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James Mathias
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newsaidin wrote:
So the area controlled by the airfield can be scored by the humans at any time before the battle resolution?


If they use Occupation yes.

newsaidin wrote:
And vice versa - humans stepping into a region controlled by machines/pilgrims with a trog war party token will NOT be able to score it until battle resolution, since control remains with the original player?


Correct.
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casey holbrook
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I would disagree with this. The way I would see this is as long as no units occupy the area the humans would continue to have control. But as soon as another player enters the area the humans would then remove the control token at the same time as you would flip the trog nest/war party. It would be pretty obvious the humans no longer control the area at the end of movement regardless of the outcome of the battle. As the trogs are now a defender meaning they are the current area controller. So I would say no the humans could no longer gain a VP from this area when using the skill occupation.
 
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casey holbrook
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I could be wrong with the above post.. also I have a question on airfield :- humans can put in a area control token in another players area that is not occupied, and that also removes the area control token that was there. or do both players have control until one of them moves in units, witch would not make since so I'm guessing the humans can easily take over other players areas if not occupied.. (in other words always have units in the areas you control or the humans will snag them from you
 
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Fito R
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Your first post is indeed incorrect. Control tokens are only placed when units are alone in a Region, or as part of resolving a Battle Region (and Airfield/Scout).
A new Control token would replace any other Control token in unoccupied Regions.
For reference for both of these things, refer to the Complete FAQ in the files section.
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casey holbrook
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ill check it out thanks
 
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Dave Sands
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ravid wrote:
I would disagree with this. The way I would see this is as long as no units occupy the area the humans would continue to have control. But as soon as another player enters the area the humans would then remove the control token at the same time as you would flip the trog nest/war party. It would be pretty obvious the humans no longer control the area at the end of movement regardless of the outcome of the battle. As the trogs are now a defender meaning they are the current area controller. So I would say no the humans could no longer gain a VP from this area when using the skill occupation.


I completely agree with this logically and thematically, and will play it this way with my group.

Thanks for your perspective.
 
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Dave Sands
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jmathias wrote:
newsaidin wrote:
So the area controlled by the airfield can be scored by the humans at any time before the battle resolution?


If they use Occupation yes.

newsaidin wrote:
And vice versa - humans stepping into a region controlled by machines/pilgrims with a trog war party token will NOT be able to score it until battle resolution, since control remains with the original player?


Correct.


Please help me here, how possibly could this second situation occur? How could a Trog war party token be in a region controlled by the Pilgrims or Machines?
The Pilgrims or Machines do not have an airfield option and a war party token can't be retreated into an area controlled by a faction so what am I missing?

Thanks in advance.
 
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Grant Rodiek
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Thelegitsandman wrote:
jmathias wrote:
newsaidin wrote:
So the area controlled by the airfield can be scored by the humans at any time before the battle resolution?


If they use Occupation yes.

newsaidin wrote:
And vice versa - humans stepping into a region controlled by machines/pilgrims with a trog war party token will NOT be able to score it until battle resolution, since control remains with the original player?


Correct.


Please help me here, how possibly could this second situation occur? How could a Trog war party token be in a region controlled by the Pilgrims or Machines?
The Pilgrims or Machines do not have an airfield option and a war party token can't be retreated into an area controlled by a faction so what am I missing?

Thanks in advance.


Four player game Trog skill
 
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Dave Sands
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Wow! Thank you for your quick/ instantaneous response...and on a Sunday!

I haven't had too many plays yet so I was unaware of that skill. Thank you for clarifying.

I wish I could get that kind of service from my bank!

TLS!
 
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R B
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Joou wrote:
By the way, there IS errata to the game. The Human Skill "Scout" works differently than printed in 2-3 player games. My version of the rulebook has this in it, at least, but not all of them do.


How can we tell which version of the rulebook we have?
 
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Christopher Kemp
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rbeall88 wrote:
Joou wrote:
By the way, there IS errata to the game. The Human Skill "Scout" works differently than printed in 2-3 player games. My version of the rulebook has this in it, at least, but not all of them do.


How can we tell which version of the rulebook we have?


There are only two afaik. The second printing has round shortening listed as an a danced variant.
 
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Odyzeus Longbow
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Thelegitsandman wrote:
jmathias wrote:
newsaidin wrote:
So the area controlled by the airfield can be scored by the humans at any time before the battle resolution?


If they use Occupation yes.

newsaidin wrote:
And vice versa - humans stepping into a region controlled by machines/pilgrims with a trog war party token will NOT be able to score it until battle resolution, since control remains with the original player?


Correct.


Please help me here, how possibly could this second situation occur? How could a Trog war party token be in a region controlled by the Pilgrims or Machines?
The Pilgrims or Machines do not have an airfield option and a war party token can't be retreated into an area controlled by a faction so what am I missing?

Thanks in advance.

It's been awhile since I wrote this but I'm almost certain I originally meant:

humans stepping into a region controlled by machines/pilgrims or with a trog war party token
 
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R B
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bananaparty wrote:
rbeall88 wrote:
Joou wrote:
By the way, there IS errata to the game. The Human Skill "Scout" works differently than printed in 2-3 player games. My version of the rulebook has this in it, at least, but not all of them do.


How can we tell which version of the rulebook we have?


There are only two afaik. The second printing has round shortening listed as an a danced variant.


I just got the game recently, but don't see any varients. I must have the older version
 
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