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Subject: Is it just me or are the rules not clear? rss

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Usman Khan
United Kingdom
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Hi

I'm trying to get my head round the rules for this game. Super frustrating since it's not clear in the book. If anyone is able to clarify the rules then that would be great!

Firstly, when can I use talents? The rules have a small paragraph saying that I can use them on raider cards that I draw. Is that the only time I can use my talent? For example, its Gorobeis turn - combat track is at 7. I take it Heihachi can't use his talent on Gorobeis turn to pass the card which could be a '2,4,6' value since Gorobei does not have the support token from Heihachi?

Second question - any raiders that are discarded, do they get shuffled back into the deck for round 2? Can't seem to find the rule for this anywhere in the book. I'm assuming they don't since they are discarded?

Lastly, if any family tokens are removed, do they get added back in next round?

Thanks!
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Alexandre P.
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As far as I remember:
1) he can't,
2) indeed,
3) they are lost so from round to round you can suffer less and less damage.
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Reverend Uncle Bastard
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1) A Talent can only be used on the turn of the samurai that has it (either their own talent, or one they have previously been given in support).
2) All Raider cards get reshuffled into the deck for the next round, including the discarded ones. Rules, page 8: "All cards used in this round are collected together... for each player add one randomly drawn Lieutenant card to the Plunderer cards. Shuffle these together to form the Raider stack for the next round."
3) Family tokens that are removed never return to the board.
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Usman Khan
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Thanks for your help guys!

Another thing I noted was that there isn't any mention of the active player token being passed. I take it this just gets passed around on each samurai's turn? E.g In the case of a 3 samurai game it starts with Gorobei then pass it to Heihachi then Kanbei.

Then if the round ends with Heihachi, the token is passed back to Gorobei (left of active player).

Thanks!
 
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Nick Clinite
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Usman2308 wrote:
Firstly, when can I use talents?


It says under each talent:

Heihachi
Every time he (Heihachi) draws a card...

Daisuke
Every time he (Daisuke) draws a card...

Gorobei
Gorobei can ignore penalties on Raider cards...

Kanbei
Kanbei can ignore penalties on Raider...

Kikuchiyo
If Kikuchiyo has chosen the "Fight" action...

Kyuzo
When Kyuzo draws a Raider card whose value is identical to that
of another card in his combat line...

Katsushiro
Every time he (Katsushiro) draws a card...

These triggers are the same for any talents that are shared via support.

Quote:
Second question - any raiders that are discarded, do they get shuffled back into the deck for round 2?


Under "End of Round": ALL cards used in this round are collected together.

Quote:
Lastly, if any family tokens are removed, do they get added back in next round?


Nothing gets added back unless there is a specific trigger that adds them back. There are no triggers for adding back Family or Farmsteads, only Barricades.
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Nick Clinite
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Usman2308 wrote:
Thanks for your help guys!

Another thing I noted was that there isn't any mention of the active player token being passed. I take it this just gets passed around on each samurai's turn? E.g In the case of a 3 samurai game it starts with Gorobei then pass it to Heihachi then Kanbei.

Then if the round ends with Heihachi, the token is passed back to Gorobei (left of active player).

Thanks!


Correct, whoever is the active player has the active player token. This becomes important when other players' talents or Kiai get triggered, so you know who to come back to once everything stops being triggered.
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Usman Khan
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Hey Nick

Thanks for your reply!

I take it if I give Heihachi Gorobeis support token, Heihachi now gains immunity from the raider penalties. Or if I give Gorobei Heihachis support token, Gorobei can use it as if he had that talent.

So basically the support token allows the samurai to perform the talent as if that samurai had the talent, then on the end of the turn I return the token back to the samurai who owns it.
 
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Nick Clinite
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Correct, where it gets tricky is that talents and Kiai can be triggered when it is not the triggering samurai's turn. For example:

-On Kikuchiyo's turn, he supports Katsushiro.
-On Daisuke's turn, he supports Katsushiro.
-On Heihachi's turn he draws a 2, which he uses his talent to hand to his left to Katsushiro.
==While it is still Heihachi's turn, Katsushiro takes the 2 from Heihachi and must "then play this card, as if he had drawn it himself, and must choose the Fight action".
==This triggers Katsushiro's talent ("Every time he draws a card..."), allowing him to put this 2 on the bottom of the deck (noting that it has no flames) and draw a new card.
==This card is a 4, which Katsushiro resolves ("this second card must be kept and played").
==Because Katsushiro resolved a Fight action, this trigger's Katsushiro's support token from Kikuchiyo, allowing him to Fight and draw yet again.
==He draws a 5, which again triggers his own talent once more ("Every time he draws a card..."), allowing him to put it on the bottom of the deck and draw again.
==This card is a 3, which trigger's Katsushiro's support token from Daisuke, allowing him to pass the 3 to Heihachi.
-Round control now returns to Heihachi, who now ends his turn and passes the active player token to Katsushiro.
-Katsushiro now performs his turn, along with Kikuchiyo's and Daisuke's support tokens, which are returned at the end of his turn.

Apologies if I messed any of that up; I haven't played in a long time. I invite other players to review the above and provide any corrections.
 
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Michal Starek
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reverendunclebastard wrote:
1) A Talent can only be used on the turn of the samurai that has it (either their own talent, or one they have previously been given in support).


Wrong. The talents are permanent. (Except you need to return all your "borrowed" talents at the end of your turn.)
Heihachi could send a Raider "4" to Kyuzo (if Kyuzo is his neighbor) and Kyuzo could kill the Raider, should he have another "4" already in his combat line (still in Heihachi's turn). That's a big part of the strategy.

Rulebook, Pg. 11:
...and a player can also use his Samurai's talent when it is not his own turn.

 
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Usman Khan
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Thanks for the super detailed response Nick! I'm going to try this during the weekend! Appreciate the time you've taken to write up the post. Really well detailed shows the talents working togeather

Thanks!
 
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Reverend Uncle Bastard
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myyysha wrote:
reverendunclebastard wrote:
1) A Talent can only be used on the turn of the samurai that has it (either their own talent, or one they have previously been given in support).


Wrong. The talents are permanent. (Except you need to return all your "borrowed" talents at the end of your turn.)
Heihachi could send a Raider "4" to Kyuzo (if Kyuzo is his neighbor) and Kyuzo could kill the Raider, should he have another "4" already in his combat line (still in Heihachi's turn). That's a big part of the strategy.

Rulebook, Pg. 11:
...and a player can also use his Samurai's talent when it is not his own turn.



Sorry for my unclear language. What I should have said is a Samurai's talent can only be used when they are resolving a card. So you can use it on another player's turn, but not to affect the card the other player drew, unless they hand that card to you with a power, then you can use your talents.
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Usman Khan
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Hey Nick

I read the support rules section and it mentioned using them on the samurais next turn. So if it was Heihachis turn, Katsushiro couldn't use his support token to battle again - in the example you gave - because it was Heihachis turn?
 
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Nick Clinite
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Please see here where I brought the issue up. I didn't receive a satisfactory answer then, but the use of the word "accumulated" makes me believe that support tokens can be used off-turn. Also, on page 9, it says "Reminder: You are never forced to use your Samurai’s talent. You can combine your own talent and those of the other Samurai who have supported you.", which leads me to believe it can be used as if it was your own talent, and the FAQ specifies that you can use your talent when it's not your turn. And that seems to be the general consensus of the player base.

This is really the most important and most under-explained part of the rule system.
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Usman Khan
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Hey Nick

Thanks a lot for clearing this up for me. Was a pain to try and work out what rule set I need to follow. You managed to explain to better than the rule book! Appreciate the time you took for your posts.

Thanks
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Nick Clinite
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Yeah, the rulebook has some translation issues I believe.
 
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