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Subject: A harder game but not mind numbing! rss

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Duncan Russell
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Hi lovely board gamers

I've recently got into the fantastic world of board games and it's become a special way for me to interact with my two kids (aged 12 and 10).

I want to add to my pretty meagre collection and have realised just how many great games there are. I'm not interested in war games or coops, but am willing to have a small amount of take that.

My long wishlist has 25 games on it and I want to get two or three that are fairly hard but not very hard. My kids are smart and pick up things quickly so I don't want entry level/gateway games - I have Ticket to Ride, Stone Age, 7 Wonders and Emerigo for that. I like worker placement but would also like a civ building game.

My top ideas at the moment are:
Great Western Trail
Viticulture EE
Concordia
La Granja
Trajan
Glass Road
The Prodigals Club
The Golden Ages
Shipyard

I'm thinking the games I get should be around 3.5 to 4 complexity rating, but I'm happy to get less complex games.

Can you help me pick my next two or three games?

Thanks

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K S
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How long of a playtime are you looking for?
 
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Duncan Russell
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wamsp wrote:
How long of a playtime are you looking for?


Around 90 mins.
 
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Derry Salewski
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buy concordia
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Duncan Russell
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scifiantihero wrote:
buy concordia


Yes, I love the sound of Concordia. Should I jump right in and get the Salsa expansion at the same time? I don't know anything about this expansion and how it adds to the game play. In Australia it costs $55 which seems a lot for an expansion.
 
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Julien K
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Kyoto
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The Voyages of Marco Polo's rules are not *that* complex. But it's a good brain burner
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Dirty Chicken
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Glass Road and Concordia are two of my favorite games. I love the use of the cards in the game. Viticulture EE is also good but I prefer the other two. I have not played any of the others.
 
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Shane Larsen
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Well, you described what you wanted and there's only one game on your list that has it:

The Golden Ages - You said you wanted a worker-placement game but would also like a civ-building game. TGA is a civ builder and a few of the actions require you to spend your workers to take those actions. It's also one of those game where the rules are pretty straight forward, but there are a lot of interesting paths to victory. Plus, there's a really good expansion you could get if you ever want to add a couple extra layers of complexity.

My other recommendation was going to be ZhanGuo. It has very simple rules mechanically, but putting together a winning game is a very challenging experience. These designers are the same designers as the hot, new Railroad Revolution. That would be another recommendation.
 
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Duncan Russell
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thedacker wrote:
Well, you described what you wanted and there's only one game on your list that has it:

The Golden Ages - You said you wanted a worker-placement game but would also like a civ-building game. TGA is a civ builder and a few of the actions require you to spend your workers to take those actions. It's also one of those game where the rules are pretty straight forward, but there are a lot of interesting paths to victory. Plus, there's a really good expansion you could get if you ever want to add a couple extra layers of complexity.

My other recommendation was going to be ZhanGuo. It has very simple rules mechanically, but putting together a winning game is a very challenging experience. These designers are the same designers as the hot, new Railroad Revolution. That would be another recommendation.


I think you've sold me on The Golden Ages!
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Matt Drown
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+1 for Concordia

You should take a look at Tigris & Euphrates, it has direct interaction, and conflict, more so than many worker placements. So make sure to look over reviews.

Quick edit, have you looked at Nations? Perhaps more complex than what you are looking for?
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Dan Mansfield
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You might want to consider a theme that will appeal to your kids. Something like Caverna might be interesting to them. Terra Mystica, too. At ages 10 and 12, and with experience playing Stone Age, those two would be a step up in complexity but not so overwhelming that they will be turned off.
 
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Duncan Russell
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Matt Drown wrote:
+1 for Concordia

You should take a look at Tigris & Euphrates, it has direct interaction, and conflict, more so than many worker placements. So make sure to look over reviews.

Quick edit, have you looked at Nations? Perhaps more complex than what you are looking for?

I haven't considered T&E mainly because it seems to be falling out of favour. Am I shallow??!!

Nations is on my longer list of 25. Definitely interested. How do gamers cope with having so many great games to choose from? If I bought those 25 games, I'd be spending about $AU2000! And there are others I could add to the list. Are we in a golden age of board games?
 
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Duncan Russell
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Sredni Vashtar wrote:
You might want to consider a theme that will appeal to your kids. Something like Caverna might be interesting to them. Terra Mystica, too. At ages 10 and 12, and with experience playing Stone Age, those two would be a step up in complexity but not so overwhelming that they will be turned off.


Yes, of course you're right. It's important to consult my kids before buying to make sure they like the theme. They helped me choose all the games we already have. And, strangely, my 12-year-old said he likes the theme of Viticulture! That's my boy!
 
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Matt Brown
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Barmybee wrote:
I haven't considered T&E mainly because it seems to be falling out of favour. Am I shallow??!!


The fact that a nearly 20 year old game just fell out of the Top 50 means it is worth looking into. Also, it could be considered Knizia's opus, and he's kind of good at designing games.
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Matt Drown
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Barmybee wrote:
I haven't considered T&E mainly because it seems to be falling out of favour. Am I shallow??!!


Check it out, the game is solid, and plays really well. The top 50 games involve popularity and how recently they were voted for as a portion of their rank.

You could also check out Race for the Galaxy, sort of a civ builder
 
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Daniel B
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screw it, go for Blood Rage
 
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Mindy Basi
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Barmybee wrote:
scifiantihero wrote:
buy concordia


Yes, I love the sound of Concordia. Should I jump right in and get the Salsa expansion at the same time? I don't know anything about this expansion and how it adds to the game play. In Australia it costs $55 which seems a lot for an expansion.


I wouldn't bother with salsa. I really like Concordia, and have the two player map (Brittania) and also own salsa...it doesn't add that much to the game, other than giving you some other options. It's just not necessary.
 
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Tyler Mykkanen
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Barmybee wrote:
My kids are smart and pick up things quickly so I don't want entry level/gateway games - I have Ticket to Ride, Stone Age, 7 Wonders and Emerigo for that. I like worker placement but would also like a civ building game.

I'm thinking the games I get should be around 3.5 to 4 complexity rating, but I'm happy to get less complex games.


Have you or your kids played anything in the 3.5-4 range? If yes, disregard these comments as you know what you are getting into. If not, read on.

The jump from a game like Stone Age or 7 Wonders to Trajan or La Granja is not insignificant. It's actually a fair bit drastic, due at least in part to the complex number of options available to a player each turn. You may find this jump too large for your kiddos and you might loose them or get frustrated because they're having difficulty playing competitively.

For reference, I have an 11 year old and a 9 year old, both bright, in advanced math, and regular gamers. They can handle the complexity of games like Lords of Waterdeep ok, but they have trouble tracking with the complex options of many deeper games. Your 12 year old might be ok, but I'm sure you don't want to leave the 10 year old behind.

That said, if I were in your shoes I'd wade into the shallower part of the deep end. Aim for a little over 3 in terms of weight. In that range, I think Concordia is an excellent pick. The game is deep, but can be broken down into a few discreet skills to make it easier to teach.

Good luck and welcome!
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Michael D
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I know several people that buy the heavy weight games "for the kids"

Lol!
 
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Michael
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+1 each for Concordia and Shipyard. Our 12-year-old enjoys both.
 
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Duncan Russell
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Kwill2 wrote:
Barmybee wrote:
scifiantihero wrote:
buy concordia


Yes, I love the sound of Concordia. Should I jump right in and get the Salsa expansion at the same time? I don't know anything about this expansion and how it adds to the game play. In Australia it costs $55 which seems a lot for an expansion.


I wouldn't bother with salsa. I really like Concordia, and have the two player map (Brittania) and also own salsa...it doesn't add that much to the game, other than giving you some other options. It's just not necessary.


I sometimes play games only with my son, so should I get the Britannia map? Does the Britannia map just give variety to the game play over the original map or is it better for two players?

EDIT: I just watched Rahdo talk about the Britannia map and he raves about it for two players! Thinks it's far better than Italy.
 
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Duncan Russell
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Hi Tyler

No, they haven't played games at 3.5 or higher, and I completely take your point. The reason I wanted to go for more strategic games is because my kids seem to find Stone Age and 7 Wonders very easy. My son regularly beats me at 7 Wonders and Amerigo - he has a great brain for strategy and patterns.

I think you're right though about going for the shallower part of the deep end and Concordia sounds like a great choice.
 
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Ludvig Stigsson
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Citadels
Dominion
Tzolki'n
BloodRage
Concordia
Dice city
Imperial assault
(Kind of hard to find a heavy lvl 4, 3player and under 90 min)
 
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