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Subject: End game rules ? rss

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Marco Grubert
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So after fighting in the jungle for a long time my brave heavy weapons dude makes it to the pod at which point the players realize there's no way for him to win the game. Re-reading the rules shows that you can only hope to win as scouts if
a) the leader is alive or
b) the heavy weapons scout plus at least one other scout is alive

Is this correct ?
 
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Cadrian
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In the Winning the Game section of my rules, it states:

'If the Scout player has one or more Scouts in the tile with the Dropship at the end of any turn then he wins.'

So it looks like you did?
 
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Marco Grubert
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But that's only at the end of the turn, i.e. after both scouts and lurkers have had their move. And during that player's move he can spawn 6 lurkers right there at the dropship resulting in an ambush score of 6 which the scout can not beat unless it's the scout leader who gets his +1 bonus.
 
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Pete Grey
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Re-reading the rules, I see what you mean. But I interpret it as if you get a scout to the dropship at the end of the scouts phase part of the turn, you win. I think thats what it should say.

This game is hard enough as it stands.
 
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Cadrian
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I've just reread that section of the rules too, and realised we have always played it the way Pete suggests. Though the end of the turn is after the Lurker player has had their Actions and used up their ambushes, just as Marco states. So you would need your Commander to stand any chance!

I think we'll stick with the old interpretation, the Scouts only win around 40% of the time as it is
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Marco Grubert
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petegrey wrote:
But I interpret it as if you get a scout to the dropship at the end of the scouts phase part of the turn, you win. I think thats what it should say.
Then there's no reason for the "end of turn" remark in that section. It could just say "as soon as any one scout reaches the dropship tile the scouts win the game".

petegrey wrote:
This game is hard enough as it stands.
Oddly enough after this rules conundrum we played another round with my wife controlling the scouts and it was a walk in the park for her with only one scout lost along the way. shake

Up until that point I was thinking that modifying the rules to only allow 5 lurkers per tile would be a good change- but now I am not so sure any more.
 
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Pete Grey
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Mmmmm... I disagree.

If that was the case-it would (should) be explained in rules that a winning scenario for the Jungle would be anytime the leader of the scouts is killed.
 
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Luca Iennaco
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Maybe a small house rule to "fix" the (unsatisfying) need of Sergeant or Heavy Trooper to win the game could be to give a +1 bonus to the Scouts on the Dropship tile (representing the motivation they get for being so close to the objective of their mission).
It could be cumulative with the bonus given by Sergeant and Heavy Trooper (making the game slightly easier if you manage to get there with the best guys) or not (thus just giving a chance to win to the standard Troopers).
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Miguel [working on TENNISmind]
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I finished my home-made copy this weekend and gave it a try. And yes, with the rules as they are written is almost impossible, and it doesn't feel good that the game resumes to an automatic "roll more than 6" for the marines in their last turn... I made one extra marine in case I lost one, but even using all of them I couldn't roll more than 6 in the last turn with the Sergeant.

Luca, your +1 rule does not avoid the automatic "roll more than 6". One easier house-rule would be to ignore the exception allowing to start lurker stacks in the Dropship. This way the Ambush with score 6 in the last turn is still possible for the lurker player but not automatic, the scout can move their men in order to get to the Dropship when the lurker cannot move a stack of 6 to the tile. And both players have a chance!

BTW, I try to move the Sergeant never alone (I can choose to lose another marine in the Ambushes) with the Heavy Trooper right behind, but the lurkers understand soon and go kill the Heavy Trooper!
 
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Luca Iennaco
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franchi wrote:
Luca, your +1 rule does not avoid the automatic "roll more than 6".

Of course it doesn't avoit it, it simply makes it possible even without the Sergeant and/or heavy Trooper (or easier when you've them).
I'll have to try both it and the "no spawn on Dropship" one to choose which I like more.
 
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Miguel [working on TENNISmind]
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I have played two solo games without the exception allowing to start lurker stacks in the Dropship. Well, the first one the marines didn't even got to see the Dropship...

But the second one they survived longer, and I think this variant adds a little more depth to the game. There was a long corridor, with one marine on one side and another one with sergeant and heavy weapon on the other. The aliens were concentrating on the latter group, having a hard time to kill them, and suddenly I realized there were few tiles left and decided to move the "isolated" marine in order to "see" the Dropship: without the exception the aliens only could get a group of 4 to the Dropship, so no "automatic roll more than 6"... though the aliens rolled a 6!!!

But well, they killed the guy, the sergeant managed to survive and make his way to this side of the corridor, and he stood the last attack rolling a 6: my first marine's victory in 6 games!


I'll try this small variant more, but I think it adds some strategy when reaching the last tiles: it becomes important where do you want to see the Dropship depending on the aliens distribution on the hulk, without the variant it doesn't matter, the end will be the same.
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Mark
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Cross_ wrote:
So after fighting in the jungle for a long time my brave heavy weapons dude makes it to the pod at which point the players realize there's no way for him to win the game. Re-reading the rules shows that you can only hope to win as scouts if
a) the leader is alive or
b) the heavy weapons scout plus at least one other scout is alive

Is this correct ?


Yes. If the leader is killed, or the heavy weapon scout is alone, the scouts cannot win. If both are killed, the scouts cannot win.

"Fixes" have consequences. Depending on the configuration of the jungle, not allowing Lurkers to be placed on the Dropship could mean the Lurkers do not have a chance to win because they can't get Lurkers to the Dropship after it is placed. And adjustment to the number of Lurkers placed, or the bonuses either side gets (good or bad) will still cause the game to come down to a die roll.

In our case, the first time the scouts reached the Dropship, the leader and heavy weapon had already been killed. it was dumb for the scouts to have no way to win, so we House Ruled that the Dropship gives a + 1 bonus. That still requires the scout to roll a 6.
 
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Luca Iennaco
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I like to be brought to 6 years old threads (by the subscription link).

It's a time machine without the fuss.

And peeking some of the avatars is like seeing again old friends after so much time...
 
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Mark
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I've given up apologizing for "reviving" old threads. It does have a back-to-the-future feel. Truth is, a thread this old pre-dates my joining BGG. I only found Lost Patrol last week. I figure there might be other like me who would want to discuss something they've never seen before, or have not been actively discussing for years. Thanks for the positive input.
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Luca Iennaco
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I am not annoyed by it.
My above post wasn't an ironic way to "scold" you; I really like to see again old threads once in a while (if I was annoyed by it, I'd have said it that much; sorry for you if others have when you did sonething similar elsewhere).
 
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King of the Dead
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I don't think he took it that way.
 
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Mark
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Nazhuret wrote:
I don't think he took it that way.


Yeah, Luca, I was agreeing with you. It's fun to revisit OLD threads. My bad if that read wrong.
 
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Luca Iennaco
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Great!
(I'll blame my non-native language for any misunderstaing!)
 
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