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Kingdom Death: Monster» Forums » General

Subject: Screaming Antelope changes... rss

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Martin Buller
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What are your thoughts? I love the new armor set bonus... For those of you who havnt seen it, it gives a buff to spears, so that if you wound, you may chose to use that wound roll on the next hit location as well. That makes spears VERY atractive in my opinion, since they can also be used to dig out traps. It also gives a bonus to be used with slam, where you get +2 str and +1 movement if you spend 1 action right after a slam.

Finally, the antelope gives better bonuses for fighting it on lvl 2 and 3 now and you always set up a bug patch when you fight it regardless of level.
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Martin Welnicki
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Still would like a mechanic that forced you to go for 2 and 3 levels after a certain LY or other condition. Now it's possible to win the game by grinding level 1s; even if Gold Smoke Knight is unbeatable with this strategy, the original quarries and nemesis won't suddenly change, so it'd make for a weird difficulty spike. And besides, it wouldn't be good game design to let players pick a strategy and only make it useless at the end, after dozens of hours of play that'd feel like cheating.
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Matt Onyx
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Mockerre wrote:
Still would like a mechanic that forced you to go for 2 and 3 levels after a certain LY or other condition. Now it's possible to win the game by grinding level 1s; even if Gold Smoke Knight is unbeatable with this strategy, the original quarries and nemesis won't suddenly change, so it'd make for a weird difficulty spike. And besides, it wouldn't be good game design to let players pick a strategy and only make it useless at the end, after dozens of hours of play that'd feel like cheating.


Well, I don't understand what this has to do with the antelope, but okay.
Letting players pick a losing strategy is totally fine. Level 2 and 3 exist for a reason, if you lose because you're voluntarily skipping them that's not exactly bad game design.
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Nan Lin
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Mockerre wrote:
Still would like a mechanic that forced you to go for 2 and 3 levels after a certain LY or other condition. Now it's possible to win the game by grinding level 1s; even if Gold Smoke Knight is unbeatable with this strategy, the original quarries and nemesis won't suddenly change, so it'd make for a weird difficulty spike. And besides, it wouldn't be good game design to let players pick a strategy and only make it useless at the end, after dozens of hours of play that'd feel like cheating.


If the only difference between winning and losing at the final boss is not getting to see some sort of epilogue page which you can cheat and sneak a quick peek at (I got spoiled regarding the 'epilogue' when you beat the original campaign... cry), I think that's okay. You don't miss out on any content.

You also reenacted the fable of the grasshopper and the ant, in the role of the slacker.
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Martin Buller
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Mockerre wrote:
Still would like a mechanic that forced you to go for 2 and 3 levels after a certain LY or other condition. Now it's possible to win the game by grinding level 1s; even if Gold Smoke Knight is unbeatable with this strategy, the original quarries and nemesis won't suddenly change, so it'd make for a weird difficulty spike. And besides, it wouldn't be good game design to let players pick a strategy and only make it useless at the end, after dozens of hours of play that'd feel like cheating.


Its been mentioned a bit already, but instead of grinding the antelope at level one, just try playing it normally. Thats how we play it, and we have plenty of cards left in its resource deck, so these changes will certainly make it even more revarding to play it at level 2 and 3 for us.

The armor set alone, wow... That bonus and with a spear makes me drool. Do you guys realize the potential on that set? Your spear will become a better version of the zambato (arguably), because you can actually crit for a location and then move that crit on to the next location, while you also have a defense in play for the dreaded trap cards.
 
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I don't really think the armor set needed the bonus, it's a very very good armor set that just gets overlooked a lot. That said, I'm content with anything that gives spear specific synergy, spears are among the best weapons in the game - but not enough people seem to realise that. In truth, I think this armor set might make spears broken - like best weapon type in the game broken.

However, the changes that bring the Barber Surgeon into the game more, that's good. It's a pain in the ass to unlock at the moment, which is a shame because the scavenger kit rocks.

One thing that is very important imo, the Lance of Longinus needs to lose irreplaceable. That's just a stupid drawback stuck on a weapon that is very challenging to craft. Remove that drawback and I'd be going after a level 3 Antelope a lot sooner.
 
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Martin Buller
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Italics wrote:
I don't really think the armor set needed the bonus, it's a very very good armor set that just gets overlooked a lot. That said, I'm content with anything that gives spear specific synergy, spears are among the best weapons in the game - but not enough people seem to realise that. In truth, I think this armor set might make spears broken - like best weapon type in the game broken.

However, the changes that bring the Barber Surgeon into the game more, that's good. It's a pain in the ass to unlock at the moment, which is a shame because the scavenger kit rocks.

One thing that is very important imo, the Lance of Longinus needs to lose irreplaceable. That's just a stupid drawback stuck on a weapon that is very challenging to craft. Remove that drawback and I'd be going after a level 3 Antelope a lot sooner.


Perhaps broken, but you have to remember that the golden knight will be really tough accoring to Poots, and some of the ones we already have seem to be changed a bit as well, so they might get harder to kill. Add that to the fact that he wants us to hunt level 3 more and it might just be that little boost we need to stand a chance now, we will have to wait and see. I am not sure on the best weapon type neither, very good yes, but there are other weapons I will want at mastery just as much.
 
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Paul Johnson
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I don't really understand what people are saying about with the armor set "buff". If the survivor in question is not using a spear and was insane on departing then it's actually a nerf. Screaming Armor did all the same things before that it does now, but with more flexibility. Before, after you used Slam you could move a space and then get +2 strength for the duration of your act, meaning you could actually attack and then surge while still having the bonus. Or, that you could slam and step away from the monster and do something else with your action. Now, you don't get the movement unless you attack, and you only get the strength bonus for that one immediate attack. Not nearly as flexible.

It's definitely a bit better for spear users (although not much; you have to hit twice and then succeed at wounding on the first try while most spears have only 2 speed and 6+ accuracy) and not mandating that the survivor wearing it was already insane is nice but outside of those circumstances it's significantly weaker now than it was before.
 
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Martin Buller
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Khift wrote:
I don't really understand what people are saying about with the armor set "buff". If the survivor in question is not using a spear and was insane on departing then it's actually a nerf. Screaming Armor did all the same things before that it does now, but with more flexibility. Before, after you used Slam you could move a space and then get +2 strength for the duration of your act, meaning you could actually attack and then surge while still having the bonus. Or, that you could slam and step away from the monster and do something else with your action. Now, you don't get the movement unless you attack, and you only get the strength bonus for that one immediate attack. Not nearly as flexible.

It's definitely a bit better for spear users (although not much; you have to hit twice and then succeed at wounding on the first try while most spears have only 2 speed and 6+ accuracy) and not mandating that the survivor wearing it was already insane is nice but outside of those circumstances it's significantly weaker now than it was before.


It seems like we are moving in a direction where the armor sets specialize a bit more, and I would say that this is a pretty significant bonus for spear. Your movement alone gives the slam with -1 toughness and then with your action, if you hit and wound, your wound gets to be used again. That in itself is pretty big, since its a certain hit, but where it REALLY becomes powerfull is if you crit. Remember that this set can be farmed pretty early in the game, so the contest for spears will be swords, daggers, whips, bows or katars. I would say that a spear user are pretty much a given, and this set would certainly improve that spear user.
 
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Paul Johnson
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valle1 wrote:
It seems like we are moving in a direction where the armor sets specialize a bit more, and I would say that this is a pretty significant bonus for spear. Your movement alone gives the slam with -1 toughness and then with your action, if you hit and wound, your wound gets to be used again. That in itself is pretty big, since its a certain hit, but where it REALLY becomes powerfull is if you crit. Remember that this set can be farmed pretty early in the game, so the contest for spears will be swords, daggers, whips, bows or katars. I would say that a spear user are pretty much a given, and this set would certainly improve that spear user.
The toughness debuff, the strength buff, and the movement all existed in a better, more flexible form before the change. None of that is new; it's just more restricted now.

The only new thing is the wound -> double wound bonus. But all of the core game spears only have a speed of 2, and all of them except for the ultra-rare Lantern Halberd have an accuracy of 6+. With no additional speed or accuracy the chance to land two hits is therefore 25%. You then have to wound the first location, and if you assume your character's strength isn't completely outranking the monster's toughness and you have a roughly 50% chance to wound then you end up with a 12.5% chance per attack of the bonus happening and a 6.75% chance of it turning a would be whiff into a wound. It's not nothing, but it's certainly not enormous. It is about as incremental of a buff as is possible.

Meanwhile, the suit just got worse for every other weapon type because you have fewer options during your activation.
 
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sam newman

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Mockerre wrote:
Still would like a mechanic that forced you to go for 2 and 3 levels after a certain LY or other condition. Now it's possible to win the game by grinding level 1s; even if Gold Smoke Knight is unbeatable with this strategy, the original quarries and nemesis won't suddenly change, so it'd make for a weird difficulty spike. And besides, it wouldn't be good game design to let players pick a strategy and only make it useless at the end, after dozens of hours of play that'd feel like cheating.


its possible but difficult, difficult because the rources gained are lower and in the long run over an entire campaign you have gained a much lower resource pool overall and oculd run into issues with an inability to inovate or craft important gear.

lvl2s are more difficult and risk losing survivors but a dead survivor isnt as important as 2 extra resources in some situations.
 
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