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Kirk Bauer
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So I think I'm ready to jump back into Myth, this time with my gaming group of 4-5 people. I have the 2.0 upgrade and the two Journeyman expansions. I'm looking for advice on how to proceed.

Is the 2.0 rulebook I received in my upgrade kit what I should be using? Can anybody help me understand how the characters advance? I took a brief look at one of the Journeyman rulebooks but wasn't clear on where to start playing and how our characters progress, etc.

I'm hoping somebody can give me a Myth 2.0 + Journeyman 101.
 
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David Hebart-Coleman
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I just started this a few weeks ago, and I have found that the 2.0 rulebook is good for getting the flow of the game, but you still need the original for things such describing character actions etc. I also use the quests from the original book as my starting point. I found most of the characters systemsare ok to run, but we struggled a bit with the Brigand and shadows. I also know that we missed some rules in the game, but it wasn't to bad. The movement/activation was the hardest thing to manage, but I used some markers to heal manage that to begin with.
 
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François Mahieu
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davidcoleman wrote:
I just started this a few weeks ago, and I have found that the 2.0 rulebook is good for getting the flow of the game, but you still need the original for things such describing character actions etc. I also use the quests from the original book as my starting point. I found most of the characters systemsare ok to run, but we struggled a bit with the Brigand and shadows. I also know that we missed some rules in the game, but it wasn't to bad. The movement/activation was the hardest thing to manage, but I used some markers to heal manage that to begin with.


Good luck first. I've been struggling with this game for weeks now. I would recommend as above. Read both rulebooks and watch a lot of videos. It's not an easy task, but if you don't give up, you'll eventually get it. As I did. Well I think I did.

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Marcus Taylor
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Progression was never supposed to be A Thing in Myth (MCG's backgrounds are in minis combat games, not RPGs).

Myth is neither an RPG nor a dungeon crawl, so originally, it was not intended to have any progression. As with games like Warhammer, you were supposed to start afresh every time.

But because the game had a fantasy theme, many people assumed it was more like HeroQuest (it isn't) and so MCG threw together a progression system, but it's not very rewarding and it's horribly unclear (as the posters above show).

Some people find it unsatisfying that the game lacks the levelling and looting of Diablo, Borderlands, etc. Another issue is that the game scales badly and the difficulty feels arbitrary.

In the first version it at least had 'Story Quests' which gave a reward of a 'title' (which allowed you to get a title bonus and keep one item) or a card-swap, adding a 'Novice' card to your hand. You only got this by completing a series of three scenarios, which took about 10 hours or so at the quickest, having to reset every time you failed a scenario.

Now that 'Story Mode' is no more, the only way to advance in the main game is via a quest-line with the cards that ultimately leads to you facing a Boss. Defeating the Boss gives you rewards as above. (It feels pretty bland compared to the 1.0 stories, especially the Kickstarter ones, because now it's generic and in the original stories, you fought the Boss in their correct context in a larger story. The stories in the KS booklet were excellent and I'm baffled why these weren't released for everyone).

As it's pretty hard, if not impossible, to defeat a Boss with starting characters, Myth is a bit of a Catch 22 situation. The idea is that you're supposed to do hours and hours of other quests, where you can't keep anything, but you do change the 'treasure bag', hopefully allowing you a chance for better gear when you do the Boss run.

Myth has a REALLY steep curve initially. Getting out of 'level 1' is much harder than in other games, and is often just a matter of luck, and endurance on the player's part.

I personally find the progression unsatisfying. It's many hours and hours where your character doesn't grow at all, which combined with the grindy, repetitive nature of the game can make it drag. I don't want 'instant superheroes' but I do think that every playing session of any game (say, 3 hours or so) should give you a small reward, something that makes you feel it was worth putting the time in.

I think a game should reward you with smaller, but incremental bonuses, so you slowly grow in power and can take on bigger and nastier things. Descent offers this, and Shadows of Brimstone has discrete levels (but gaining XP feels pretty fiddly in that game). These games also offer non-combat stats, encounters that aren't fights or traps, and a town/shopping sequence, which are things Myth lacks to any real degree.

Journeyman does offer two 3-part 'modules' (each of which has the same first act unfortunately) which offer rewards. But these are intended for more powerful heroes, so you cannot do these right out of the box.

Journeyman also allows you to card swap now with accumulated Serendipity (I think it needs 10). Whether that applies to only JM heroes or any heroes is something only MCG knows.

TLDR; progression in Myth is one of the weaker parts of the game, and if you want to evolve your character over a course of a campaign, there are many other games that do it better.
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MM
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Also, McG stated they were going to convert a story from the original rulebook into module format in the next "patch". If they stick to their word, it will be done before end of year. That might give you a place to start.
 
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Paul F
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The story mode is gone as they have been replaced with modules. These have much more explicit setup instructions and more generous with the rewards. In story mode you completed a 3 Act quest (likely 3-4 gaming sessions) and got a single title or card manipulation (this is Myth advancement, updating card deck to got stronger abilities). In the new JM modules you get card manipulations at the end of every act and a title at the end, so after one module you actually end up with 4 manipulations and a title; much better rate of progression.

The problem is that there are not many modules yet. Rise of the Revenant is downloadable from their Website and is for advanced novices just before Journeyman (recommended 2 titles and 1 card manipulation). They are also releasing a beginners module in their 4th quarter path which should be out soon. Other modules (including rewriting some of the original stories in that format) will trickle out over time.
 
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Marcus the Ready wrote:

Journeyman also allows you to card swap now with accumulated Serendipity (I think it needs 10). Whether that applies to only JM heroes or any heroes is something only MCG knows.


All the new Serendipity rules in Journeyman apply backwards. So Serendipity can be spent when playing the Base Game for card swaps.

Where I got that Answer.
http://megacongames.com/community/#/discussion/2104/another-...
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David Griffin
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First of all, if you go comb the forums you'll find this same question a bunch of times and you can pick up lots of tips there that I might forget. But here are a few things.

1. As said above, progression was an afterthought. If you go watch the megacon videos you'll see how much fun this game can be -- a sort of poetry in destruction but they never talk about progression. But the first tip is go watch every one of those videos and don't worry too much about progression.

2. The manual (2.0 or 1.0) leaves a lot to be desired when it comes to LEARNING the game. If you can learn from a human do that. If not, read the books, watch as many videos as possible, and go through the rules forum to work out the stuff you don't understand. Then play the game solitaire and then go back to the manual and read it again. If this sounds like a lot of work, it is. But we used to do it with every darned war-game anyway so welcome to our world.

3. Myth's forte is free form adventuring. That is you just pick a tile for no particular reason (or you have a story in mind and the tile fits) and then populate it according to what you are feeling like at the moment in terms of monsters and challenge. The problem is that you don't get ANY of the information you need to make those choices from the manual and not very much from the videos. For that you will have to play. At first there will be a lot of looking down at the board and pondering. Try to do that solo before introducing it to more players. And when you teach the game, talk to the other players about how those choices are made -- what parts of the game are hard (lairs, some captains, bosses) and why and how to choose the traps.

4. If you want to play the old story quests do. You will have to come up with a lot of stuff yourself, they just give you a general idea. And if you want to gain a title or card swap from that do but don't get hung up on the progression. In fact if you are playing an actual adventure (like rise of the revenant) just give your characters the necessary card swaps and titles you think they need. But don't do that right away because you don't yet know which cards or titles you will want. Play the game solo a couple of times to build your knowledge first.

Myth is an experience. It's not designed for RPG campaigns. Do the homework, play till you understand what's hard and what is easy and are starting to get a handle on strategy and tactics, and then teach it to your friends and prepare for a lot of fun.
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carbon_dragon wrote:

Myth is an experience. It's not designed for RPG campaigns.


That's true, but the OP specifically mentioned the JM sets.

There's a bunch of people who may have got on board with the 2nd KS, read the JM stuff, would like to give it a go, and have no idea how to 'level up' so they can try out the stuff in their shiny new game.

The main problems with Myth as a game, as opposed to problems with MCG, seems to be:

a) it takes a huge effort - of reading rulebooks, forums and watching videos - to learn how to play in the first place

b) when you know how to play, it's not at all clear how you're supposed to progress

Again, compare it to similar games - Brimstone, WHQuest, Heroquest, Descent, etc. where a 'starter adventure; is provided, something you can get into right out of the box.

Those who like random questing are covered already. For those who want something more structured, I feel Myth needs a starter module, one that shows you all the elements - minions, captains, lairs, agents, traps, bosses, mini-bosses - in turn, allows you a small advancement, and most importantly, uses all the elements that come in the initial boxed set (no more nonsense like Fireborn that requires proxies). Descent does this.

THEN, and only then, when you feel you've enjoyed all that, people who want more of it will look at expansions, new minis, etc.

At the moment, people coming into the game seem flummoxed. 'What do I actually DO with all these cool components?' seems to be the main question being asked. That's what MCG really needed to address.

Yes, I suppose you could just give yourself the cards and items and titles to enable you to play the new stuff. But if you're doing that, why not have a system that actually enables you to get there in a focused way?

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Hey I agree with you in nearly everything you said. And as it happens I just got the JM stuff. But despite Megacon's laudible attempts to conform to player expectations and create a progression mechanic that makes sense, I am not convinced there is any chance it will work. It is just SO not what they seemed to be going for when you watch them play on YouTube in the comically too few videos.

And the thing is, this is a GREAT game, full of choice in a way few (if any) other games are. Personally I think Megacon should buy themselves a copy of Earth Reborn and see how a game manufacturer creates a ramp of missions that teach the players a complex miniature game. I just don't think that is going to happen though. If you walk up to a convention D&D game that is using 11th level characters, you aren't expected to start with 1st level characters right? If you happen to have your own characters great but often they just give you pre-gens. That's all I'm suggesting here. Let people do their own pre-gens or give them pre-gens (with all the card swaps and titles already defined). THEN if the progression system ever works, by all means establish a ramp of missions like ... oh... say every other game does.

People have said before that Myth is less a game than a great toy (or sandbox) for the designers. It works best not for new players but for super-experienced players to play really interesting, tactical, exciting games. Maybe trying to make it into Warhammer Quest or Shadows of Brimstone or Black Plague is the wrong way to go?
 
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carbon_dragon wrote:
Maybe trying to make it into Warhammer Quest or Shadows of Brimstone or Black Plague is the wrong way to go?


I'm not disagreeing either. My gamer group plays a load of games that are one offs - from Talisman, Zombiecide, Touch of Evil, Arkham Horror, Red Dragon Inn, etc. Nobody minds these don't have progression. But I couldn't get them to play Myth if I paid them.

MCG clearly didn't intend it to have levelling (none of their other games have). But they put it in, likely because a lot of people wanted it because of the fantasy theme.

So now we have this weird halfway house, we have expansions that require stronger characters and no clear way to get there. As threads like this show.

At least everyone understands that in D&D etc, you get to higher levels by playing the lower level modules and improving; progression here isn't so obvious.

I don't know what the answer is. Pregens might be an idea, as you suggested. Or as I stated, maybe a tutorial module that teaches the game AND provides some persistent elements for those who want it.

Right now, the game's a bit of a mess. It's still hard to learn and new fans are daunted or confused. MCG doesn't do much to alleviate that. 2.0 did improve the clarity of the rules and cards, but didn't do much to help new players learn the game. The player choice is certainly a feature, not a bug, but some people will want a more structured environment.
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Jeremy Steward
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There are essentially 2 ways to play: Adventure mode and Modules.

Modules have a scripted story and offer strong progression as, unlike the old Story quests, you get an adv card or title after each act.

Adventure mode is freeform and allows you to do what you want. Progression comes in the form of treasure bag mods and items, although ideally you would want a title or 2 in order to keep those items. The JM boxes have new tiles that allow you to encounter a boss and you can also get a title that way.

In my opinion, the best way to start is with a module then you can stick with the modules or do freeform in between.

The new Stone of Life module coming very soon in the next patch should be a very good place to start. There is also a fanmade module of No Rest for the Weary that is very good.

Rise of the Revenant is good as a 2nd module.

Each of those modules give 2 adv cards and a title so you can do the JM modules after that.
 
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Fury of the Fireborne often gets forgotten about since it'll supposedly be rewritten, but it's a perfectly good, challenging module in its current state. If you want to start before the Stone of Life comes out, Fury would be a perfectly decent place to start.

If Myth 1.0 had contained the Stone of Life, Fury and the Revenant with clearer rules and cards, the game would probably be more highly rated than Descent.
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Darby_ wrote:
If Myth 1.0 had contained the Stone of Life, Fury and the Revenant with clearer rules and cards, the game would probably be more highly rated than Descent.


Agreed. I think in a year's time Myth will be in a much better state for new players as there will be multiple modules available with a range of difficulties (assuming they make the JM KS ones available at retail as well). However, that shouldn't stop you from having fun with it or learning the game now as it is one of my all time favourites even in its current state.
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The Q4 patch is supposed to be out tomorrow or Tuesday, it is said to contain the Stone of Life module. The Stone of life module is FINALLY aimed at beginners and AFAIK even includes a walk-through tile in which ever action is scripted if you want to effectively watch the game played for you for a single tile.

This is what I have been waiting for before jumping back into myth after having a small false start with the 1.0 rules and then deciding it was just easier to wait. (Plus it takes me about that long to paint a game anyway!)

MCG have made some serious cock-ups in the order in which they have released things. How do we still not have 2.0 cards for the first KS enemies?? Who thought it was a good idea to release RotR module before SoL??

I am no MCG apologiser, but I do believe as the modules begin to come over the next year Myth will be one of the most unique and best games on the whole market. The BBG rating however will never recover from the >100 1-2 ratings it has from those who couldn't stick it out until the game came together, makes me wonder how many other games there are on BBG which suffer from this fate?
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multifish wrote:
Darby_ wrote:
If Myth 1.0 had contained the Stone of Life, Fury and the Revenant with clearer rules and cards, the game would probably be more highly rated than Descent.


Agreed. I think in a year's time Myth will be in a much better state for new players as there will be multiple modules available with a range of difficulties (assuming they make the JM KS ones available at retail as well). However, that shouldn't stop you from having fun with it or learning the game now as it is one of my all time favourites even in its current state.


The 2.0 rulebook should be rewritten. Again. modest
 
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I noticed that the Arkham Horror card game had two rulebooks - one being a reference guide that clearly stated all the rules and keywords, and another that actually teaches you how to play.

Myth desperately needs a full tutorial, showing you the elements of the game step by step. The difficulty just to learn how to play seems to be putting a lot of new fans off.

z4carlo wrote:
The BBG rating however will never recover from the >100 1-2 ratings it has from those who couldn't stick it out until the game came together


To be fair, these are balanced by the greater number of people who rated it 10 before it even came out.
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What Myth really needs is a teacher to actually teach you the game. Obviously that is impossible unless they want to do a LOT of driving. But a series of well produced videos designed from the start to teach the game -- not only the rules but strategy and tactics too AND instruction on populating tiles would go a long way. The videos that they did do were tantalizingly useful in promoting the potential fun of the game but they weren't designed for teaching.

Myth also needs a well-defined scoring mechanism to score quests and adventures on difficulty along with suggested requirements for numbers and types of adventurers. Pre-gens should be included (example parties with cards swaps and titles included along with equipment related to the titles). Playtest THOSE parties and even if players don't use them, they will have something to refer to when coming up with their own.

A possible third thing Myth could give you is a sort of Myth version of the chess problem. As most of us are aware, a chess problem is a picture of the board with a question attached that typically amounts to how to win in some number of moves. Here you could get a picture of the myth board and the player's hands and ask for suggestions on what the next moves of the players should be -- the plan. The answers to those questions would allow people to learn Myth tactics, both from the experts and from others like themselves.
 
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This is the suggested "No Rest for the Weary" fan module, correct?

https://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/113251/expanded-story-que...

Thanks for so much help everybody. I tried digging through the forums and even though I know my question has been answered before I just couldn't parse through everything enough to get that answer. This has really helped.

So it sounds like the overall consensus is to start with etiher No Rest for the Weary or wait for Stone of Life.

Then I should jump straight into Rise of the Revenant, and then one of the Journeymen expansions?
 
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kirkbauer wrote:
This is the suggested "No Rest for the Weary" fan module, correct?

https://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/113251/expanded-story-que...

Thanks for so much help everybody. I tried digging through the forums and even though I know my question has been answered before I just couldn't parse through everything enough to get that answer. This has really helped.

So it sounds like the overall consensus is to start with etiher No Rest for the Weary or wait for Stone of Life.

Then I should jump straight into Rise of the Revenant, and then one of the Journeymen expansions?


Yes, Rise of Revenant as 2nd module is challenging but it is doable. (I did it a couple weeks ago)

Fury of the Fireborne is an option, but I simply dont think it is as good of a module as other options.
 
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Marcus the Ready wrote:
I noticed that the Arkham Horror card game had two rulebooks - one being a reference guide that clearly stated all the rules and keywords, and another that actually teaches you how to play


Imperial Assault has a reference book as well, and it's fantastic for new players. You have a question about loot? You simply look up the word 'loot' or whatever and it has a quick breakdown of all you need to know on the topic. It's perfect for pausing the game when you need a rule clarified, then quickly getting back into play.

If it was up to me, Myth would have a Quickstart Guide with a Module attached, a regular rule book, and an alphabetical reference guide.
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z4carlo wrote:
The Q4 patch is supposed to be out tomorrow or Tuesday, it is said to contain the Stone of Life module. The Stone of life module is FINALLY aimed at beginners and AFAIK even includes a walk-through tile in which ever action is scripted if you want to effectively watch the game played for you for a single tile.


Where are they going to post something like that? I've got a copy of Myth that I picked up from another owner, so I'm not zeroed in on the Myth resources.
 
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Jeremy Steward
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jcfiala wrote:
z4carlo wrote:
The Q4 patch is supposed to be out tomorrow or Tuesday, it is said to contain the Stone of Life module. The Stone of life module is FINALLY aimed at beginners and AFAIK even includes a walk-through tile in which ever action is scripted if you want to effectively watch the game played for you for a single tile.


Where are they going to post something like that? I've got a copy of Myth that I picked up from another owner, so I'm not zeroed in on the Myth resources.


On the megacon games website under downloads
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kirkbauer wrote:
So it sounds like the overall consensus is to start with etiher No Rest for the Weary or wait for Stone of Life.


If you can wait, I'd seriously consider holding off for the patch (someone will definitely announce it here). That will contain "The Stone of Life" as a module. Brian Shotton committed to a learning/training first act complete with every move documented so people can see how this game is played.

I suggested a companion video as well so people could leverage both - I really hope they do one.

Regardless, they are responding to this "how do I play Myth" cry from the community, so it might be wise to wait and see how they execute on that initiative.
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Looks like they are hoping to post the link on Tuesday? I'm hesitant to trust this, as though they said the module is 95% complete, "The only thing lacking is the tutorial portion of the module. It needs diagrams and images."

....which seems to be the most important part.
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