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Descent: Journeys in the Dark (Second Edition)» Forums » Rules

Subject: Warding talisman item rss

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Marko Zivkovic
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May I use Warding talisman item, while defending, after OL spends surge(s)?

Many thanks for answers.

Maki
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Alexander Steinbach
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Of course, why not?
 
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Paul
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Most definitely no. "After rolling dice" means "during the 'roll dice' step, after attack and defense pools have been rolled." Roll dice is step 2, so spend surges (step 4) would be too late.
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Alexander Steinbach
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zaltyre wrote:
Most definitely no. "After rolling dice" means "during the 'roll dice' step, after attack and defense pools have been rolled." Roll dice is step 2, so spend surges (step 4) would be too late.


I'm sorry, but this does not make any sense. After rolling dice means just that: after rolling dice. If they meant during rolling dice, that's what it would have said. Spending surges is still after rolling dice, so I don't see why this can't be played.
 
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Proto Persona
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Vardaine wrote:
zaltyre wrote:
Most definitely no. "After rolling dice" means "during the 'roll dice' step, after attack and defense pools have been rolled." Roll dice is step 2, so spend surges (step 4) would be too late.


I'm sorry, but this does not make any sense. After rolling dice means just that: after rolling dice. If they meant during rolling dice, that's what it would have said. Spending surges is still after rolling dice, so I don't see why this can't be played.
That has to do with the many and complex rulings that have been made by the game designers. You can find most of this information in the Unofficial FAQ Wiki. Relevant quote from there:
Quote:
Q: Does "after dice are rolled" mean "during the roll dice step, but after rolling dice," or "any time after dice are rolled, until the attack is resolved?"
A: After dice is immediately after dice.

Basically anything that triggers on before or after rolling the dice has to happen in step 2 of the attack, before proceeding to step 3 or later.

I generally trust Zaltyre on this stuff. He's delved into the rules and timings of Descent far more than I have. He usually has quotes from FFG to back it up too.
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Alexander Steinbach
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So I assume you also have to avoid glancing at the range numbers as the moment that you realise the attack is going to hit you are at step 3 of the attack steps and thus too late to use this. With this criteria it is impossible to use any ability that says "after rolling dice".

I read the ruling so I'm obviously mistaken somewhere, but this still does not make much sense to me.
 
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Proto Persona
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Vardaine wrote:
So I assume you also have to avoid glancing at the range numbers as the moment that you realise the attack is going to hit you are at step 3 of the attack steps and thus too late to use this. With this criteria it is impossible to use any ability that says "after rolling dice".

I read the ruling so I'm obviously mistaken somewhere, but this still does not make much sense to me.
It's not that complicated. Don't try to get into it too deep, just know that you have to decide on any rolled dice card tiggers before moving on. Also the main purpose of step 3 is checking to see if you need to spend surges or cards on range enhancers. This ruling mainly prevents timing conflicts where one player wants to change how he spent his surges or cards in response to another card or ability being used. The game designers tried to avoid any instances where players are allowed to rewind their actions to keep things fair for both players. Remember at it's heart Descent is a competitive game.

There's a lot of intended strategy where you need to use items in anticipation of things before knowing if you actually needed to use them. Some of the higher level strategy for the OL player involves bluffing the heroes into spending things they may not have needed to.
 
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Paul
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Right. Step 3 exists in theory, but for most attacks it practically takes a fraction of a second. The important separation is between the dice rolling step and the surge spending step. It's to prevent situations such as...

Attacker (A) rolls 3 and a surge, defender (D) rolls 2.

A: Alright, I'm going to spend my surge on 'stun'.

D: Well then, I'm going to use this 'warding talisman.'

A: In that case, I'd rather spend the surge on 'mend 1'

D: No need to use the warding talisman, then...

As it stands, everyone rolls, and then plays cards that modify the roll (changing the X, adding surges, etc). Then, during the spend surges step, the attacker has the opportunity to further enhance the attack by spending the surges (but the number of surges to spend is essentially fixed by this point).
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