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Subject: ...Give it a Second Look... rss

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Okay ... another new topic...

What series do you think people should give a second look to and why?

I'll do another one in a few days to talk about individual games rather than series, but let's start with series since they're so hot right now in wargaming.

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I have been playing the Fleet Series quite a bit recently. The game system is remarkably clean and downtime is pretty minimal. Only drawback is they are using 1980's weapons platforms. Would love to get an update.....
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TedW wrote:
I have been playing the Fleet Series quite a bit recently. The game system is remarkably clean and downtime is pretty minimal. Only drawback is they are using 1980's weapons platforms. Would love to get an update.....


Let me qualify that since there is a Japanese series that's taken up the torch of doing this very thing....Would love to get a widely distributed English Language update to this!
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The Civil War Campaign Series games from the late 80s/early 90s. The games can be found for about $25 USD:



I think the system is the best I have seen at capturing the Civil War combat tactics and cavalry screening. The games have the entire campaign option, as well as shorter scenarios, and even "what if" options.

The biggest gripe I have seen is that it doesn't solo as well and people couldn't find opponents. I have the same dilemma, so I created Vassal modules for all of the games.

The last four have awesome Rick Barber maps and counters. The last four games use the system created in the first one (with game-specific rules) and are designed by an active BGG user.

I'm actually not big on series games. I think too often, they try to force a round peg through a square hole, but since these games all cover Civil War battles, the system is tight and flexible enough to work with all of the battles.
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Victory Roads
Liberty Roads
Roads Series from Hexasim works in lots of chrome with random support chits. Hitler Humeur track encourages German generals to make a name for themselves. Pretty map and counters. The invasion system would port straight into Roman Roads.
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gamesontables wrote:
TedW wrote:
I have been playing the Fleet Series quite a bit recently. The game system is remarkably clean and downtime is pretty minimal. Only drawback is they are using 1980's weapons platforms. Would love to get an update.....


Let me qualify that since there is a Japanese series that's taken up the torch of doing this very thing....Would love to get a widely distributed English Language update to this!


That would be great! The issue with the Japanese series are threefold:
-not widely distributed
-mostly tertiary theaters
-components are substandard.

The other problem with the series as a whole is nobody really knows how all these weapon systems will interact in actual combat.... The Falklands was that last real test we had and even then that was a relatively minor skirmish in the grand scheme of things.
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polate wrote:
Victory Roads
Liberty Roads
Roads Series from Hexasim works in lots of chrome with random support chits. Hitler Humeur track encourages German generals to make a name for themselves. Pretty map and counters. The invasion system would port straight into Roman Roads.


Second look? I am still working on a first look! cry
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BoJack Horseman wrote:
Combat Commander Series

It's rumoured that a whole new base game based on Vietnam is just around the corner


Would LOVE that!
 
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BoJack Horseman wrote:
Combat Commander Series

It's rumoured that a whole new base game based on Vietnam is just around the corner (not sure how big the corner is), plus some new battle packs, and also another designer has made a WW1 version (Great War Commander)using the same system which is due for release quite soon


This did not click for me at all - I found it very long and fiddly for the level of control. But, to stay on topic, I have a friend making a good argument that I've missed the point of the hand management aspect, and I will give it another try with him.
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I'll throw in the GOSS series. They updated the rulebook and charts this past september.

Great "deep" system. I find it more of a simulation wargame which i love without being too abstract with gameplay.


...
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TedW wrote:
BoJack Horseman wrote:
Combat Commander Series

It's rumoured that a whole new base game based on Vietnam is just around the corner


Would LOVE that!


Still waiting for the WW1 version...
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Duc de Guise wrote:
Ashiefan wrote:
TedW wrote:
BoJack Horseman wrote:
Combat Commander Series

It's rumoured that a whole new base game based on Vietnam is just around the corner


Would LOVE that!


Still waiting for the WW1 version...


If so, expect the inveterate Combat Commander detractors to criticise the WW1 version on the basis that it doesn't include tanks. Sigh!


I'll show my ignorance of the things I own here potentially...but didn't one of the battle packs include rules for a disabled tank that's on the map. There was some tongue in cheek commentary around that one too if I remember correctly. lol Maybe they could carry on that tradition.
 
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claystone wrote:



I'll throw in the GOSS series. They updated the rulebook and charts this past september.

Great "deep" system. I find it more of a simulation wargame which i love without being too abstract with gameplay.


...


Very intense but interesting rules.

If someone could create tutorial and full-rules scenarios that are well-balanced and playable in one day or less, I am sure this system would get much more attention.

Simply looking at AW, taking into account all the smaller operations that took place in Normandy, the gaming potential here is enormous, IMHO.

cool
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TedW wrote:


The other problem with the series as a whole is nobody really knows how all these weapon systems will interact in actual combat.... The Falklands was that last real test we had and even then that was a relatively minor skirmish in the grand scheme of things.


The Falklands was a fascinating conflict but not a real test due to the relative technological backwardness of both sides. The General Belgrano was sunk by Mk8 torpedoes because the more modern Tigerfish didn't work. 1960's vintage A-4 Skyhawks sank RN ships with iron bombs because the RN lacked AEW aircraft on our dinky carriers and decent point defence systems. Valuable lessons were learnt and a WW3 in 1985 would have seen a much more capable RN with phalanx and stopgap SeaKing helicopters with searchwater radar. What a multi regiment Backfire attack on a Nimitz class CVN battlegroup would have looked like remains speculation.

I liked the Fleet series but I had to rewrite some of the rules to make it work. Hidden movement for subs until detected is the biggie. No phase system and opposing units can be in the same hex (subs have to be in same hex to attack with torps).
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Worth comparing these old games to contemporary platoon-level titles, such as PANZER GRENADIER series, PANZERBLITZ: HILL OF DEATH, WAR STORM series, NATIONS AT WAR series, FIGHTING FORMATIONS, and OPERATION DAUNTLESS/RED WINTER series. Certainly beats the older titles like PANZERBLITZ, PANZER LEADER, PANZER '44, SPI's old PANZER BATTLES, etc. Still holds its own versus the far newer games available today. Some will say the TANK LEADER series are even better than those other titles you'd play today!
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Duc de Guise wrote:
Ashiefan wrote:
TedW wrote:
BoJack Horseman wrote:
Combat Commander Series

It's rumoured that a whole new base game based on Vietnam is just around the corner


Would LOVE that!


Still waiting for the WW1 version...


If so, expect the inveterate Combat Commander detractors to criticise the WW1 version on the basis that it doesn't include tanks. Sigh!


I think that the WW1 version does have tanks.

 
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Was going to say the Tank Leader series, but someone beat me to it. I'll say that many more people should be playing these three--







I really look at these as being both the best of the WW2 operational system games and the best of the block games. Gives players exactly the right set of decisions. I'm really surprised they aren't more popular.
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ericmwalters wrote:






Worth comparing these old games to contemporary platoon-level titles, such as PANZER GRENADIER series, PANZERBLITZ: HILL OF DEATH, WAR STORM series, NATIONS AT WAR series, FIGHTING FORMATIONS, and OPERATION DAUNTLESS/RED WINTER series. Certainly beats the older titles like PANZERBLITZ, PANZER LEADER, PANZER '44, SPI's old PANZER BATTLES, etc. Still holds its own versus the far newer games available today. Some will say the TANK LEADER series are even better than those other titles you'd play today!


So they need a reprint.

cool
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seanmac wrote:
Was going to say the Tank Leader series, but someone beat me to it. I'll say that many more people should be playing these three--







I really look at these as being both the best of the WW2 operational system games and the best of the block games. Gives players exactly the right set of decisions. I'm really surprised they aren't more popular.


I love the system. It hits the sweet spot of scale and rules weight for me; it gives you a whole lot of difficult decisions (at the appropriate level for the scale, too!); it gives you uncertainty about enemy and even your own capabilities; it encourages you to stockpile resources in preparation for an offensive; it shows you why local counterattacks are often a good idea. As I said somewhere else, "It's a staff college education in a box!"

Bulge is very very good. It really feels breakthrough-ish, with the Germans often driving for the Meuse, but feeling their exposed shoulders as the 3rd Army starts to hit them from the left; then the overwhelming American counterattack.

I warmed up to Sicily on my 2nd look, finding that the Axis need to play a very aggressive defense, which not only gives them a chance to win, but also makes for a more interesting game!

I'm not sure about Golan '73 yet. It seems like a very difficult game for the Syrians; the Israelis have such high-quality units. ("Quality has a quantity of its own?") But I got some good suggestions from Doug DeMoss that I want to try out.

And Gazala is up next. I can't wait to see how the African front plays out with this system!
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seanmac wrote:
Was going to say the Tank Leader series, but someone beat me to it. I'll say that many more people should be playing these three--


I really look at these as being both the best of the WW2 operational system games and the best of the block games. Gives players exactly the right set of decisions. I'm really surprised they aren't more popular.


I've been looking at the FAB series for some time now, but never pulled the trigger because I just know how often I end up playing solo. These games just beg for a good, tense F2F. I wonder if that's a factor in their lack of success?
 
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AlfyB wrote:
seanmac wrote:
Was going to say the Tank Leader series, but someone beat me to it. I'll say that many more people should be playing these three--


I really look at these as being both the best of the WW2 operational system games and the best of the block games. Gives players exactly the right set of decisions. I'm really surprised they aren't more popular.


I've been looking at the FAB series for some time now, but never pulled the trigger because I just know how often I end up playing solo. These games just beg for a good, tense F2F. I wonder if that's a factor in their lack of success?


It's possible, although I think they solo okay, as do all block games (just requires stepping away from the table for a minute before switching sides). There are also Vassal opponents to be found. I think operational gamers are often prejudiced against area movement games to a degree, and the rules are different enough from the standard Columbia model block games to potentially keep block gamers away. I'm honestly not sure what the issue has been.
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Der Weltkrieg Series is one of that gem series which I am quite surprised is not more popular. It's the best treatment of WW1 I ever had seen. I love the attack-counterattack procedure, how it shows the importance of supply, the excellent rulebook and the playability for what can be considered a monster. It's the best portrait of what I have ever read it was the WW1 combat, because it teaches you why they stalled to trench warfare without making it about chrome. It puts the strategic focus not only on the victory locations but on generating losses and this creates a logic workflow of event.
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DReaper wrote:

This is the series which immediately popped into my mind when I saw this thread.

Quote:
is one of that gem series which I am quite surprised is not more popular.


I sometimes half-seriously wonder if it's because so many people seem very turned off by the unusual graphic design of the hex terrains (even though it supports a cool terrain mechanism which I've not seen elsewhere)...
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DReaper wrote:


Der Weltkrieg Series is one of that gem series which I am quite surprised is not more popular. It's the best treatment of WW1 I ever had seen. I love the attack-counterattack procedure, how it shows the importance of supply, the excellent rulebook and the playability for what can be considered a monster. It's the best portrait of what I have ever read it was the WW1 combat, because it teaches you why they stalled to trench warfare without making it about chrome. It puts the strategic focus not only on the victory locations but on generating losses and this creates a logic workflow of event.


The series also forces you early on to make poor choices so that it sets up the remainder of the war. Effectively, it preempts a bunch of 20/20 hindsight moves by the French (or Germans for that matter). It also highlights the devastating power of German Siege artillery early on against what initially appears to be indestructible Belgian fortresses.
 
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Four series spring to mind:

1) The MMP/The Gamers' TCS system
2) Legion's Island War Series
3) Legion's IWAW (Indian War of the American West) series
4) MMP/The Gamers' NBS (Napoleonic Brigade Series)
5) Clash of Arms BAR series
 
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