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Subject: Placing ocean tile, what is the incentive? rss

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Jon Pessano
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All,

What is the incentive at the end of the game of placing an ocean tile if you think/know you are losing?

Thx
jonpfl
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+1 TR point (victory point)
+1 Money production

Also if you plan to place any tiles in the future they will get you 2 Money if you place them next to this tile. (Opponent could also do this) Also possible VP bonus on some cards (Capital for one).

Not the most exciting answer but that's about it.

Now you asked about incentive...but the opposite is that maybe you want to delay placing ocean tiles so the game stretches out longer and you might come back....
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Jon Pessano
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ben1835 wrote:
+1 TR point (victory point)
+1 Money production

Also if you plan to place any tiles in the future they will get you 2 Money if you place them next to this tile. (Opponent could also do this) Also possible VP bonus on some cards (Capital for one).

Not the most exciting answer but that's about it.


Wow, I missed the money production and VP!

I don't see in the rules the +1 money production.

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jonpfl
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Sorry I totally worded that poorly.

1+ TR point for placing the ocean tile WHICH IN TURN will increase your money production by 1. (You don't move the money production marker but since you increase TR by 1, your money production increases.)
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Also placement bonus (resources, cards, etc.).
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Donny Behne
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jonpfl wrote:
ben1835 wrote:
+1 TR point (victory point)
+1 Money production

Also if you plan to place any tiles in the future they will get you 2 Money if you place them next to this tile. (Opponent could also do this) Also possible VP bonus on some cards (Capital for one).

Not the most exciting answer but that's about it.


Wow, I missed the money production and VP!

I don't see in the rules the +1 money production.

Thx
jonpfl


The amount of money you produce is production + TR. So by increasing your TR, you get more money each round, though it does not effect your money production track.
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ɹǝsɐɹɟ
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Back in the days when there were less maps we played every map back to back
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As mentioned above the TR rating which is a victory point and extra money.

Also depending on the placement you may be able to place it near where you can place other tiles and you gain 2 cash for each adjacent ocean tile when you place a tile.
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Joe Browes
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Also, since all oceans will be placed, that point is going to go to someone, and better it goes to you than your opponents.
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Steve Cohn
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kelann08 wrote:
The amount of money you produce is production + TR. So by increasing your TR, you get more money each round, though it does not effect your money production track.


THIS. This is critical, especially as the game comes back into print in 2017 and more new players start playing this great game.

Your M€ production does not increase from placing an ocean.

Your TR does, which gives you more M€ in subsequent turns. Production is very different from TR, they should not be confused.

Also a very excellent point:
Interociter wrote:
Also, since all oceans will be placed, that point is going to go to someone, and better it goes to you than your opponents.


Now, I'm going to turn this back around to the OP. You are playing a game, a game you are possibly not going to win.

Why on earth prolong that unless you think you could potentially turn it around? But if you think you could potentially turn it around, then you probably are not thinking you can't still win.

If you can not win, hurry the game up, choose new Corporations, and play it again!

Looking forward to a long Christmas weekend to get this one played again, a time or three!

~Steve (edited because I could find the "€" symbol in "M€" fast enough!)


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Ken Chaney

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OchreOgre wrote:
If you can not win, hurry the game up, choose new Corporations, and play it again!


Just a quick point of etiquette, which will vary considerably from player to player ...

In a 2 player game, if you can not win, you can offer to concede and move to the next game. If there are other players, rushing the game end will often give a huge advantage to one of the players over the others, who may not be as dead as you are. The other players may not appreciate that ... suck it up and give them their chance to come back! If you become bored, try conversing with other players or something wacky like seeing how many cubes you can stack.
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Andrew Kranak
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I have never understood why it is bad taste for players out of the running to still attempt to play the game optimally and score points. Just look at the situation you outlined.

1. The losing player does things that score points, helps move the game to its conclusion, and thus benefits the player that is currently in the lead.

2. The losing player stops moving the game along, and leaves those desirable points for the player in second place, allowing that player to overtake the lead.

Both of those situations effect the outcome of the game, but only one of them has a player, or multiple players, sitting around doing nothing. I have always believed that if you stop taking real actions to avoid being a "Kingmaker" and instead allow somebody else to get all of those points, you are actually being a Kingmaker.
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Ken Chaney

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I'm sorry I wasn't clear in my point.

Taking actions just to bring about the end of the game as soon as possible, because a player has given up and is bored, is the thing that I wanted to address. That was the intent that I was taking from the statement "If you can not win, hurry the game up, choose new Corporations, and play it again!" This is very different from "If you are ahead and other players may catch up, hurry the game up" or "If your buddy is ahead and the player you dislike is catching up, hurry the game up."

I didn't mean to suggest the losing player should stop scoring, or doing things to improve their company score or end game position, or even things they enjoy as thematic.

It's fine by me if players do those things EVEN if they give the game to one player or another.
It's also fine by me if two players are having an epic battle for first, and I'm way out of it, to essentially pass to let them duke it out, but most people won't actually want me to make that level of concession, so personally I typically take actions based on improving my rank, score, or if nothing matters there, theme or fun. I try not to kingmake intentionally, but it's a tricky area to judge, so having the above reasons for choices comes in handy.

I agree that a defeated player dropout can certainly affect the game and ultimate winner, which is a potential problem.
 
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Mark J
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In a 2-player game, if you're obviously being trounced you can always just concede defeat.

I don't recall anything in the rules proving for a player in a multi-player game to resign. It would work easily enough with this theme: if a corporation was losing megabucks on this venture, they might go bankrupt, or sell out. I don't think it would be hard to come up with house rules for resigning, whether you just leave all a player's tiles on the board, remove them, auction them off, etc.

If I'm losing a game I rarely quit. I keep playing mostly for the fun of it, and with the perhaps unrealistic hope that, who knows, another player will make a disastrously bad decision or have really bad luck and I can catch up.
 
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Nate Sandall
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jonpfl wrote:
All,

What is the incentive at the end of the game of placing an ocean tile if you think/know you are losing?

Thx
jonpfl


Are you grabbing milestones?
Are you setting yourself up to win any awards?
Are you playing cards that give you victory points?

If you're not doing those three things and you're not placing oceans then you're only getting points from raising oxygen, raising heat, or end game scoring of city & greenery tiles. So other than card points anything you're not doing someone else is doing and getting points for it!
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