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Subject: The Proof is in The Manual... rss

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Garviel Loken
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Hi all,

I am currently starting out as a freelance proofreader, and as a boardgame fan I thought that a great way to get some experience would be to help out you designery folk with the written side of your games.

Simply put, I will read your manual and flag up any spelling or grammar errors and any other inconsistencies. All for free!

If you're interested, please either reply on this thread or give me a GM with any questions.
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Frank Haas
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Hi,
do you sign a contract for the customer? Something like an NDA? We are currently searching for a translator and had some issues, because our NDA was not accepted.
 
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Kai Herbertz
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siayres wrote:

All for free!


Please don't work for free - the only exception is working on your own projects, where one sometimes does not get paid.

There should always be some form of compensation involved, even if it is just a token amount. Otherwise that experience does not really count as professional experience by definition (plus, you're poisoning the well).
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Vincent
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KaiHerbertz wrote:
siayres wrote:

All for free!


Please don't work for free - the only exception is working on your own projects, where one sometimes does not get paid.

There should always be some form of compensation involved, even if it is just a token amount. Otherwise that experience does not really count as professional experience by definition (plus, you're poisoning the well).

I find this an interesting discussion (this also came up in a translator topic). I enjoy proofreading rulebooks. I do this frequently and I have never asked for compensation. I have received free copies and sometimes credit in the rulebook, but never money. Now you are telling us(/me) we shouldn't be doing this? I would never put 'professional proofreader' on my CV so I'm not bothered by that bit, but how am I poisoning the well?
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Kai Herbertz
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the_vinman wrote:

I find this an interesting discussion (this also came up in a translator topic). I enjoy proofreading rulebooks. I do this frequently and I have never asked for compensation. I have received free copies and sometimes credit in the rulebook, but never money. Now you are telling us(/me) we shouldn't be doing this? I would never put 'professional proofreader' on my CV so I'm not bothered by that bit, but how am I poisoning the well?


Getting a copy of the game, which costs something to produce, is - in a way - compensation.

In addition, you said that you do not put professional proofreader on your CV, but in case of the OP I got the impression that he wanted to gain work experience. In that case, I would try to negotiate some form of payment.

It's just a suggestion, especially since I am "guilty" of previously having worked for free as well, just for the fun of it. In hindsight I don't think it is good to do so.
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Derry Salewski
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the_vinman wrote:
but how am I poisoning the well?


Sets an expectation that it's not something worth paying someone for. Like musicians who pay to play.

I dunno if I agree with it. Since you kinda get what you pay for and anyone should know that. But hiring a hobbyist for cheap/free in creative fields where wannabe writers/musicians/artists/whatever outnumber actual professionals exponentially can be pretty tempting, I bet.

But the perception of free vs 2 bucks an hour can probably be pretty powerful.
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Charles Ward
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Quote:
great way to get some experience would be to help out you designery folk with the written side of your games.


Hi Garviel, thanks for posting here and offering to help. I use BGG on a daily basis looking for content, games, game news, contests, design tips, etc. Without this resource I could not have published 2 games and continued to create games. I love doing it, but it is a team effort. I'm not a publisher, but I aspire to be so. There are many upcoming designers here who are only just starting out, and need help. For most of us here, designing games is rarely a full time job, and the games that I mentioned have not yet made money. But, you have to start somewhere with little to invest with. So free help is always appreciated. As is the advice that is given for free in the design forums. Every little helps.

I have had the pleasure of making connections with people who have helped me get games out. I would like to help more. When I do I also establish a connection that way. I know that these connections will pay off eventually. I also try to recompense play testers, proofers, artists, etc. But that is not expected, and I feel better doing things this way.

As far as the discussion goes, I don't think you are reaching out to publishers. Are you? It seems more like you just want to help out designers that are putting out print and play games for free, and the likes. Though, if you get involved with publishers, that would be cool, too. Even better, right?

I would love to take you up on your offer. Your help is much appreciated. The title of this thread really caught my eye: The Proof is in The Manual. You should do copy writing, too.

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Garviel Loken
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Wow, I have to say I didn't intend to start a debate!

The issue of working for free/reduced rates is one that comes up quite a lot with the SfEP (Society for Editor and Proofreaders) that I'm a member of. To be honest, I think it's pretty difficult for someone just starting out such as myself to find the requisite experience to get to the next level of membership, especially as I don't have any contacts in the publishing world at all. It's all very well for established proofreaders/copy editors to look down on voluntary work, but they generally have an established client base!

At the end of the day, I'm doing this to both gain experience and to help the community. If designers/publishers want to reimburse me for that I won't say no, but I'm doing it because I love boardgames and I feel I have something to offer. This is also something I'm mainly looking to do for independent designers or smaller publishers, rather than working for Fantasy Flight for free!

Charles, I'd love to discuss that further! Please GM me with further details?
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Blake Muzar
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Hi Garviel,

Appreciate you offering your time - I would definitely take you up on it if you are willing. I've had a version of this Rule Book in the works for about 3 years, but I wouldn't be surprised if I had overlooked some errors since I've been in the document for so long.

Mana Spirits is a strategic drinking card game that plays similarly to multiplayer Hearthstone. I've been working on it for the past 4 years. You can find the latest Rule Book here: https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0B29ddnhjFy1cfk1S....

I'll check this thread in case you have any comments or feedback, or feel free to GM me.

Thank you!
 
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Brendan Riley
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8Oj4N wrote:
... my rules leak somewhere I will have to dig out my war-tomahawk. Just kidding. ...


I think you just leaked them....
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Garviel Loken
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Schuttberg wrote:
Hi,
do you sign a contract for the customer? Something like an NDA? We are currently searching for a translator and had some issues, because our NDA was not accepted.


Hi Frank,

Sorry, I missed this earlier! I would have no problem with signing an NDA in theory, but I'd obviously need to look at it first! Can you GM me to discuss further?
 
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