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Subject: Fixing the thug monopoly rss

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Flying Arrow
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I have read some of the complaints about this game and the one that really bothered me was the idea that someone could have all the thugs, get them all killed, then buy them all back at the end of the turn, creating a thug monopoly. Have others found this to be a problem? If so, do you have a good solution for it?

I haven't played the game yet, but that seems like it could be a game-breaker.
 
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Roderick Schertler
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If you attacked him wouldn't you get to buy up the thugs which you killed?
 
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Flying Arrow
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That's a good point. Maybe the complaint came from someone who was trying to 'turtle'. You have to attack to break the monopoly - yet another reason the game would discourage turtling. I haven't played the game yet. I just noticed that the thug monopoly was a common complaint of the game.
 
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Tim Gilberg
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FlyingArrow wrote:
I have read some of the complaints about this game and the one that really bothered me was the idea that someone could have all the thugs, get them all killed, then buy them all back at the end of the turn, creating a thug monopoly. Have others found this to be a problem? If so, do you have a good solution for it?

I haven't played the game yet, but that seems like it could be a game-breaker.


Any game that has a shared pool of units to purchase from--with the counter or figure mix being the limit of what can be purchased--can run into this.

It was certainly possible with, say, the old Conquest of the Empire, generally with the Catapults.

If there is a counter or figure mix limit with a shared pool, you want things to work as you describe--you attack, you lose units, you get first crack to buy them back. If it works the other way--you attack, you lose units, your opponent gets first crack to buy them back--you make it extremely prohibitive to do anything offensive.
 
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Gary Heidenreich
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This game *really* discourages "turtling".
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Aaron Gelb
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bop517 wrote:
This game *really* discourages "turtling".


I agree. If one turtles, he is not expanding his land. Without land expansion, his income doesn't multiply, and thus can't buy stronger or more units, and will quickly get left behind by players that are expanding. Plus, attackers have some advantages, such as the hit man 1st attack. I've played this game twice, and I LIKE IT A LOT! I have seen no turtling...maybe a round or two of building up, but that doesn't last long.

At a certain point in the game the thugs become less useful, as people can afford hit men and henchmen, which are quite expensive, and people can't afford to just buy all of them, because then they wouldn't buy illicit activities, precincts, choppers, etc. This game has a lot to do and buy, and you must be well rounded to succeed.

I like it better than Axis and allies, or attack, or any other game this style. Plus its OOOZING with theme. Don't question, just buy....especially if tanga sells it again for $19.99!!!

Its our new favorite, and finally i found a game that the "risk only" guy will play without losing his patience. We love it and I find it pretty well balanced, and depending on how many players and which starting position you have changes your strategy enough that the game will stay fresh for quite awhile. First game was with 5 players, and there were a lot of little skirmishes with a few bigger ones, last night we played with 4 and it was less attacking, but some really great ones, like my hitman flying in on a chopper and popping a bullet right in my frien'ds family member's head, which actually kept him from winning the game that turn!

Plus the idea of kidnapping family member, making ANY kind of deals with the other players, all the bits and that woonderful smell of toxic plastic, this game rules.

This game isn't just about attacking, either. More often one will win by reaching 6000 bucks on a turn like I did last night. So yes, go shoot your friends up, but also build those illicit activities, skyscrapers, and corrupt those cops! Turtles will die quickly.

Do yourself a favor and get it!

Wow, that was longer than I had planned.


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Aaron Gelb
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FlyingArrow wrote:
I have read some of the complaints about this game and the one that really bothered me was the idea that someone could have all the thugs, get them all killed, then buy them all back at the end of the turn, creating a thug monopoly. Have others found this to be a problem? If so, do you have a good solution for it?

I haven't played the game yet, but that seems like it could be a game-breaker.



FLYING ARROW: "Thug monopolizing" is not a game breaker in this game. It just doesn't work like that. In the first game, one player did monopolize on thugs more than the others, but it really didn't give him any advantage. He had quantity, not quality. They attack poorly and only move 1. Don't let this keep you from getting the game. And if it does happen, heres the solution. While he's spending all his time and money on thugs, expand away from him and buy hench men. You'll be richer than he is, and have stronger units. Plus his actions could make him a target. This is a game of the Mafia...make deals, buy people off, gang up..its what its all about!
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Miika Toukola
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Here's a solution: double the number of thugs available.

Compared to all the other pieces there simply are not enough thugs. None of the other pieces usually come even close to running out, so why keep this problem with thugs? Thugs have a good cost/power ratio and are a good defense, so players tend to buy quite a few. Even if a single player doesn't own all the thugs, I think it is sad that three rounds into a game all of the thugs are easily gone. I don't see why this restriction on what to invest in should come so soon. Try it for yourself and I think you'll notice that it's nice to concentrate on something else for a change than a fear of running out of thugs.

-Miika
 
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Aaron Silverman
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The problem with the shared force pool that we ran into, when playing with 3 players, was that the unit types tended to run out during the second player's turn, so during the initial force build-ups, the third player ended up with a much smaller army solely due to the fact that he was the third player.
 
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Forest Cole
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KingKneru wrote:

Here's a solution: double the number of thugs available.

Compared to all the other pieces there simply are not enough thugs. None of the other pieces usually come even close to running out, so why keep this problem with thugs? Thugs have a good cost/power ratio and are a good defense, so players tend to buy quite a few. Even if a single player doesn't own all the thugs, I think it is sad that three rounds into a game all of the thugs are easily gone. I don't see why this restriction on what to invest in should come so soon. Try it for yourself and I think you'll notice that it's nice to concentrate on something else for a change than a fear of running out of thugs.

-Miika


Yep, what I did was just buy up extra copies of the game when Tanga had them cheap. But that's because I like seeing mutliples of the figures. Another simple solution without buying another copy might be to just require the use of chips under a single fig of whichever type in a territory to represent multiple figs of that type (like in Axis & Allies) in the same territory. These fixes may skew an intended game mechanic, but if so, IMHO, it's an unnecessary mechanic if you just want to have more available for longer. I imagine there's not often an actual shortage of thugs in any real world gang environment, lol.

I agree with the rest it's a game with a very high fun factor!
 
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