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Subject: Chances of a build guide? rss

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David Tolin
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So, given the success of this new Kickstarter campaign and the amount of time allotted for fulfillment, does anyone think there is a chance Adam will finally put in the time and get a build guide for all KDM models up on the KDM site?

I recognize he seems content to just link to Vibrant Lantern (which is a great resource), but let's be honest. Vibrant Lantern isn't perfect, and there are still miniatures that no one is 100% certain how to put together as intended. This isn't a huge problem, as there are generally accepted builds for every mini, but it sure would be nice to see an official document.

There aren't many things I'd critique about the way KDM was created and marketed, but the lack of official build guides is one of the areas that is really unfortunate. The sprues all have labels, which indicates to me the plan was to produce detailed build guides for every model, so the lack of follow-through is kind of mind-boggling. Optimally, any product Poots releases should have a printed manual with instructions for putting together its contents, and this new KS campaign seems like the perfect opportunity to spend some money and get it done properly.

I nearly have all of my KDM stuff built, so I don't really *need* build guides, but it would certainly improve the product overall. And I'd like to have them for all the new expansions, for sure.
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Drake Coker
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I suspect he will immerse himself in designing all the new content and we won't get any build guides. This is just a guess based on past behavior.
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DavidT wrote:
and there are still miniatures that no one is 100% certain how to put together as intended.

Which figures are these? I know Phoenix is notorious for having all the different hands, but I thought Vibrant Lantern had it's guide pretty much wrapped up. Are there other ones that are tough to figure out?
 
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that Matt
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Considering that he can effectively outsource to Vibrant Lantern for free, I don't see official build guides coming.
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David Tolin
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jindianajonz wrote:
DavidT wrote:
and there are still miniatures that no one is 100% certain how to put together as intended.

Which figures are these? I know Phoenix is notorious for having all the different hands, but I thought Vibrant Lantern had it's guide pretty much wrapped up. Are there other ones that are tough to figure out?


The Phoenix is a good example. I'm not sure anyone knows where every hand goes, really.

For others, I'd have to go back through to say for sure, but I recall the Watcher not being 100%, as well as the intimacy female. Nothing major, but it's annoying to have minis where you're half-way guessing. And even when the build is 100% certain, it's not always entirely clear (to me, at least) what you're supposed to do based on the pictures on Vibrant Lantern (I think I spent way too long trying to figure out how to assemble the Lonely Lady's hair, despite having the VL build guide right in front of me). It's a great resource, but it's neither perfect nor authoritative.

I suspect everyone is correct, though. I'm not optimistic about seeing official build guides. Even if it boggles my mind that we are all okay with that.
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DavidT wrote:
jindianajonz wrote:
DavidT wrote:
and there are still miniatures that no one is 100% certain how to put together as intended.

Which figures are these? I know Phoenix is notorious for having all the different hands, but I thought Vibrant Lantern had it's guide pretty much wrapped up. Are there other ones that are tough to figure out?


The Phoenix is a good example. I'm not sure anyone knows where every hand goes, really.

For others, I'd have to go back through to say for sure, but I recall the Watcher not being 100%, as well as the intimacy female. Nothing major, but it's annoying to have minis where you're half-way guessing. And even when the build is 100% certain, it's not always entirely clear (to me, at least) what you're supposed to do based on the pictures on Vibrant Lantern (I think I spent way too long trying to figure out how to assemble the Lonely Lady's hair, despite having the VL build guide right in front of me). It's a great resource, but it's neither perfect nor authoritative.

I suspect everyone is correct, though. I'm not optimistic about seeing official build guides. Even if it boggles my mind that we are all okay with that.


We are because we have vibrantlantern. Otherwise some of the minis would be anightmare to assemble. I guess Poots had posting a building guide in mind, but it has been postponed because there might have been other priorities to take care of.

 
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Michael Pflug
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I agree with the OP.

Also the lack of official build guides leads to some parts on the sprues, that nobody seems to know what they are for.
 
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Nick Wirtz
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100% with you david, don't understand how this is so accepted. The best resource being a confusing and occasionally wrong fan site is not great practice.

I've generally attempted to get everything done based on the store photos, but occasionally am left wondering.
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Hugh Jorgan
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DavidT wrote:
So, given the success of this new Kickstarter campaign and the amount of time allotted for fulfillment, does anyone think there is a chance Adam will finally put in the time and get a build guide for all KDM models up on the KDM site?

I recognize he seems content to just link to Vibrant Lantern (which is a great resource), but let's be honest. Vibrant Lantern isn't perfect, and there are still miniatures that no one is 100% certain how to put together as intended. This isn't a huge problem, as there are generally accepted builds for every mini, but it sure would be nice to see an official document.

There aren't many things I'd critique about the way KDM was created and marketed, but the lack of official build guides is one of the areas that is really unfortunate. The sprues all have labels, which indicates to me the plan was to produce detailed build guides for every model, so the lack of follow-through is kind of mind-boggling. Optimally, any product Poots releases should have a printed manual with instructions for putting together its contents, and this new KS campaign seems like the perfect opportunity to spend some money and get it done properly.

I nearly have all of my KDM stuff built, so I don't really *need* build guides, but it would certainly improve the product overall. And I'd like to have them for all the new expansions, for sure.


Agreed, especially the Dragon King armour kit, which left me scratching my head till, very recently, when VL was nice enough to upload a guide.
Incidentally, I've had no problems with the Phoenix, it took time, but the correct hand will always fit quite flush. I've assembled every monster and nemesis without much difficulty, the armour kits are the biggest issue, for me. I've been able to tolerate it, since I paint so slowly and I've go quite a backlog I've unpainted survivors to go through before I start assembling new ones.
 
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I think Adam is grateful to VibrantLantern for kind of taking over that part of the production though they aren't officially connected at all.
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Nick Wirtz
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Well yeah, of course it'd be great to get someone to help out for free like that, and would have been perfectly fine as a stop-gap. He'd need a serious ego and temper to not think that was a boon. But, it's not an official solution to the issue of the never-delivered guides and there are definitely gaps on the site.
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spiralingcadaver wrote:
Well yeah, of course it'd be great to get someone to help out for free like that, and would have been perfectly fine as a stop-gap. He'd need a serious ego and temper to not think that was a boon. But, it's not an official solution to the issue of the never-delivered guides and there are definitely gaps on the site.

What do you think the chances are that we'll see VL's Demien eventually thrown on the payroll and some effort made by Poots and co to fill in those gaps?
 
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Nick Wirtz
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I... guess it could happen? Would be pretty disappointed if it did. I have trouble imagining that it would be that hard to get someone to use the CAD or w/e files for the parts and turn that into a labeled diagram with the amount they raked in from this KS given how many do something like that which have seen less success than KD.
 
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Demian
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Most sprues are not marked except the arm/forearm pieces. Also, CAD instructions are useful but where do you stop? There are 6 Core and 4 Expansion armor sprues with most of the single sets having 4 different base bodies (arm, leg and torso assemblies) and 150 + weapons and items from the base game and (probably) another 60 from expansion sprues. Do you expect every possible combination to be in a build guide?

Nick, you're funny. My biggest critic here and across the KD:M internet has spent zero time helping me fill gaps on Vibrant Lantern where I have about 500 hours in the past year putting it together. I choose to spend my effort constructively as it takes little skill to be critical. I don’t care for your painting style (and recognize/acknowledge your skill) but don’t waste my time posting about it every chance I get.

On Vibrant Lantern

I've exchanged a few emails and talked with Adam in person. He's grateful (and sent me a set of the expansions) for my effort. Specifically, he explained that he prefers organic assembly over prescriptive builds, the build guides are a lower priority compared to other items and that while not perfect, are enough. The guides are examples for novices by a novice, not for God mode hardcore dakka dudes – they have their own place to trade ideas.

To be honest, I'd love official build guides too. Before VL, I built a couple 1:48 airplanes as a kid and the Warhammer Island of Blood starter kit a few years ago. I read every email that’s sent and update where it makes sense to and give credit if/how they want. I'm proud and happy to have helped thousands of people to get a little bit more from Kingdom Death, help them understand the models they're getting from KS 1.5 and really looking forward to the reprint next year when I'll help thousands more.



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Demian, please know that there are those of us that really appreciate all the amazing support you bring to the community. big part of my miniature building enjoyment has been in great part of your guides. there will always will be critics that rather point to the faults than to give props for the free and great content.


keep the good spirits and merry xmas, from a noob that has been able to succesfully build his core , promos and pinups.

your guide is 10000x times more usefull than a nicely painted gallery, no matter how skillfull painted.

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David Tolin
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panwuan wrote:
There will always will be critithat rather point to the faults than to give props for the free and great content.


Just to make sure it's clear: this thread is not about criticism of Vibrant Lantern. It's about Poots's decision not to provide official build guides for KDM.
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Yeah, it's a bizarre legacy of the early days of miniatures that building instructions are an exception, rather than the norm. Shadows of Brimstone, which had a boardgaming audience, didn't even come with printed instructions. GW finally got the memo and has printed instructions. Only took them how many decades though??
 
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