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Subject: New units: breaking the cost formula? rss

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Chris Farrell
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I was looking over the new units that were recently added to the database, and it looks like a couple of them break the old cost formula. Specifically:

Elephant (B4, Move 3/Forest, Cost 5, 3 Steps)
Assassin (A3, Move 2/Mountain, Cost 4, 2 Steps)

These guys seems to cost one less gold than they should. The Assassin particularly seems to be a much better deal than a Ranger (A2, Move 2/Forest) at the same cost. The Elephant also seems a little out-of-whack with the Cyclops, which has identical stats, can be built up to only two steps, but costs one gold extra at 6.

Was this a data entry error? Or are these units really undercosted?

Anyone else starting to see more new units? I'm theorizing that a new batch in a second print run is starting to make its way through the system, so I'd be curious to see if we get another spurt of new units added to the DB.
 
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Merv D
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I rechecked my blocks. Those are correct stats.

Elephant and Trog are both B4, and cost the same. The 3/forest gives the Elephant an edge, however. So maybe the Elephant should be a 2/forest? Or maybe it should cost 6 like the Cyclops.

The Catapult and Assassin are both A3, and cost the same. The catapults movement is less.
Assassin compared to the Horsebow seems pretty off as well. Should the Assassin be a 5 then?

I don't know. I haven't messed with the cost formula before, but they do look cheaper than they should.

Bonus for the Orcs and Amazons.
 
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Steve Rogers
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As I get my hands on more units I am realizing the same thing.

to date I have found the following under the original cost formula:

All Hero/Heroine at A4, move 3 would cost 7 GP.
All Assassin (Elves, Feudals and Orcs) at A3, move 2 would cost 5 GP.
Amazon Elephant at B4, Move 3 would cost 6 GP.
Barbarian Orcana at B1, Move 4 would cost 4 GP.
Orc Queen at A2, Move 2 would cost 4 GP.
Undead Bone Dragon at A4, Move 2 would cost 6 GP.
Chaos Giant at B4, move 3 would cost 6 GP.

Much like wizards the following units have no chartable cost under the formula:

Chaos Haven at D3, move 0, +1 port
All Treasures
All Artifacts

I can understand that the Hero/Heroine would be an exception similar to cost formula if they were limited to 1 per army and cannot be rebuilt, but as is, if you beef up on a few you get one hell of a boost!

The other five unit types might be oversights. Those of us from the 1st edition remember the occasional misprint, all of which were rectified by errata, the cost formula and the 2nd edition versions. It's more than likely that a few new errors crept in.

anybody else noticing other odd bits?
 
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Chris Farrell
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Actually, I think it's just an alteration in the formula. It seems that there is now a discount of 1 if a unit only has a max of two steps, or a discount of 2 if it only has one step. This does make some sense; a single-step unit still counts against the hexside limits the same as a 4-step unit, so it is in some sense weaker. On the other hand, I'm not sure it's worth a whole 1 or 2GP discount.

Also, the discount seems inconsistantly applied. Heroes, Assassins, Elephants, and the Giant get it, while Vampires, Basilisks, and Dragons do not.
 
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Steve Rogers
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I agree with you on the heroes. They clearly benefit from a discount (3gp). Since every army has them it's a fair playing field.

My concern about them is, although they count against stacking (but not hexside limits, mountains, rivers), they are A5 in cities, and lastly, when mixed with other units, they are likely to fire sucessfully in each phase, without being at risk due to thier low strength.

If the discount is appropriate (I think so), I think they should be limited (1 per scenario) or at least subject to the wizard elimination rule (2.24).

BTW I also think that there should always be a scenario limit on the # of Wizards (# of blocks and GP limit). The 1st edition limit was always 3 per army (unless you were crazy and rich) and although I like the B+ Wizards, I think due to the random sorting, a scenario limit on Wizards is a good idea.

Regarding Assassins, the Orc Queen, the Bone Dragon and the Chaos Giant, since these are limited to 4 armies and one Chaos unit at present, I don't see why they should benefit from a discount because they have 2 steps. Regardless of how it is examined (Fire value, Move or Strength) the other units in WK2 respect the cost formula, including many other units with the same profiles respectively.

The same can be said for the Elephant and Orcana (3 steps each).

I think these are easily correctable. Raise the step cost by one or lower the Move by one. If it were my preference I would keep mobility and raise step cost.
 
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