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Valley of the Kings: Last Rites» Forums » Rules

Subject: Menial + Architect Combo rss

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Jesse the Fourth
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One of the players in our first game of this last night used a combination of Menial + Architect to great effect.

Menial allows you to buy from anywhere in the pyramid as it's action. Architect has its action which can cause it to be worth the number of cards in your discard as gold for one purchase.

Can these actually be combined? I feel conflicted on this.
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David Jones
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I don't see why this isn't legal. If the Architect is providing you with a lot of purchasing power, this likely means that you aren't entombing very often. I also don't understand why you feel this is any more powerful than cards with a "take" ability.
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Joe B
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I don't have the rules in front of me, but I believe you have to complete one card's action before performing the next. This would preclude using that combo.
 
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David Jones
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cromatoast wrote:
I don't have the rules in front of me, but I believe you have to complete one card's action before performing the next. This would preclude using that combo.


1) You could play Architect first to get the gold value and then play Menial. This would not violate the "completion" rule of which you speak.

2) While I will admit I could by wrong, my interpretation of Menial is that, once played, it is an "always on" ability.
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Jesse the Fourth
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It was under the rule of "Completing one card's action before performing the next" that I was wondering. The wording of the cards is this:

Menial: Buy a card from anywhere in the pyramid.

Architect: Count the cards in your discard pile. Architect is worth that much in gold for one purchase.

In my reading of the Buy from Menial, you could play Menial, then play any number of cards for gold value, then purchase a card from anywhere for the gold value and the action ends. In my reading of Architect, you get gold equal to your discarded cards and may make an immediate purchase with that gold with nothing else applied.


As for balance - I honestly don't give a rip about balance. All I care about is figuring out how it's meant to be interpreted.
 
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David Jones
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falarransted wrote:
In my reading of Architect, you get gold equal to your discarded cards and may make an immediate purchase with that gold with nothing else applied.


I doubt the card is meant to be taken that literally. I think the point of the text is to remind players that gold cannot be split between two purchases.
 
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Tom Cleaver
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falarransted wrote:
It was under the rule of "Completing one card's action before performing the next" that I was wondering. The wording of the cards is this:

Menial: Buy a card from anywhere in the pyramid.

Architect: Count the cards in your discard pile. Architect is worth that much in gold for one purchase.

In my reading of the Buy from Menial, you could play Menial, then play any number of cards for gold value, then purchase a card from anywhere for the gold value and the action ends. In my reading of Architect, you get gold equal to your discarded cards and may make an immediate purchase with that gold with nothing else applied.


As for balance - I honestly don't give a rip about balance. All I care about is figuring out how it's meant to be interpreted.


Jesse,

I don't see how this is a combo at all. If you play Menial first, you can spend all the gold you want to buy a card from anywhere in the pyramid. That will not change the number of cards in your discard pile, because everything you spent is still in play. You can then play Architect to buy another card (from the base of the pyramid).

It doesn't matter in which order you play Menial and Architect.

But perhaps I misunderstand what you are trying to do.

Tom Cleaver

Tom Cleaver
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Aha, so Architect is intended to give an extra purchase from the base of the pyramid?

Quote:
worth that much in gold for one purchase.


I guess the confusion was whether the reading was "for one extra purchase" or "during one of your purchases".
I see it's the former.
 
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Dave Roy
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Rainbow Snake wrote:
Aha, so Architect is intended to give an extra purchase from the base of the pyramid?

Quote:
worth that much in gold for one purchase.


I guess the confusion was whether the reading was "for one extra purchase" or "during one of your purchases".
I see it's the former.


I'm not sure I understand, though.

Couldn't the architect get you the gold that you can then use to do the Menial's purchase from anywhere in the pyramid?

Or does the Architect's purchase have to be immediately done after playing the Architect?

Tom, could you please clarify that?
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Tom Cleaver
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Jesse and Rainbow Snake,

I misunderstood what you question was. Sorry. Here's the resolution: The action of each card must be completed before you play another card. Therefore, if you play Menial first, you must resolve it immediately by using the cash value of cards in your hand to buy a card from anywhere in the pyramid. You can't play Architect to get the cash needed.

If you play Architect first, you must use the cash immediately to buy a card from the base of the pyramid.

How's that?

Tom Cleaver
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Jesse the Fourth
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Yes! That's very clear!

Next time I play, I'll clarify this with my players. It was how I gut felt the ruling would have been, but it was everyone's first play so I didn't want to get into a rules debate that folks would have argued was unclear.

Thanks, Tom!
 
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