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Arkham Horror: The Card Game» Forums » General

Subject: Please READ THE RULEBOOK! rss

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Robbie M.
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On this day, 'tis better to give answers than to receive answers .
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MC Shudde M'ell
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Speaking purely for myself, I find it enjoyable to read honest requests for clarification, especially if I can think of a helpful response. The Rules Reference is not what I would consider to be a readable technical manual - you either have to know the right name of the thing you are confused about, or you have to be able to organize a lot of disconnected information in your head. That's a useful skill to have and to practice, but not everyone's idea of the optimal way to spend their leisure time. As always, no one is compelled to visit these forums or to look at questions or to answer questions. Those of us who do, are spending our free time the way we want to.
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Eric Gingras
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The forums are here to help each other out and discuss the game. There's absolutely nothing wrong with posting questions about the rules. I know this is a really good solitaire game, doesn't need to be a solitaire community.
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Jeremy Santiago
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On the same note of a community, I'm just venting to my community. I read every rules question for the games I own, and also take time to answer those that I can with references. But the ones I've come across on AH LCG make me wonder if people are reading the rulebook.
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Scott Rogganbuck
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Eliminating rules questions threads in this way could be problematic in a few ways:

- It takes away avenues for rule-knowers to show their game knowledge superiority and ability to share bits of wisdom like:

"You were holding the book upside-down." or "The answer is clearly present on page 217 subsection 5.6.2ii and based on errata from last month's press release."

- It would deprive the opportunity for the obligatory, "This game is dying" comment. The problem here is twofold:

*This has a deep emotional impact, particularly on Lord of the Rings LCG players who visit these forums, whose game is dying.

*It would severely disrupt the balance of thumb-generation within these forums, as that particular comment generates roughly 17% of all thumbs given in the forums.
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Christian Kløve
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I read the rulebook, but couldn't find the section concerning one or two core sets?
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Chris Booth
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I've read it and still missed important mechanics /interactions. It was the same when starting xwing. It doesn't help that some of the Wording is somewhat ambiguous on places I think someone asking for clarity and advice in a coherent straightforward manner is cool.
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Patrik Severinsson
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I think most of the questions arises because FFG claims you can actually play the game after (or even at the time of) reading the 'Learn to play' booklet. Unfortunately, you don't really learn to play the game good enough by reading that document.
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Christian Kløve
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Exo Desta wrote:
Kløve wrote:
I read the rulebook, but couldn't find the section concerning one or two core sets?

Hey look everybody, it's a thumbs-me post.


As long as the game is dying, might as well have some fun. And, yes, that's another one.
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Chick Lewis
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Made me laugh, Kieve, THANKS for that, and merry Christmas.
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MC Shudde M'ell
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SSGMightyMouse wrote:
But the ones I've come across on AH LCG make me wonder if people are reading the rulebook.


Some of them certainly aren't, and some of them quite straightforwardly let us know that they haven't read the rulebook. If you don't want to answer a question from someone who might not have read the rulebook, don't. Of course you're free to vent your feelings about it, and I would encourage you to do so - so far, the only emotional response you've given is "wow". By all means, let us know how you feel.

When you vent in a way that expresses an opinion about the questions of others being worthwhile or not, some of us will use this opportunity to encourage questions, even questions from people who have difficulty reading, or who understand rules better in a conversational setting. I have found ever since high school that explaining something to someone else is a good way for me to learn the thing I'm explaining more thoroughly, and to remember it better. I've been explaining games at the table to people who haven't read the rules for years, and if I didn't like doing it, I wouldn't bring my own boxes.
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Richard A. Edwards
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Esgaldil wrote:
SSGMightyMouse wrote:
But the ones I've come across on AH LCG make me wonder if people are reading the rulebook.


Some of them certainly aren't, and some of them quite straightforwardly let us know that they haven't read the rulebook.

Perhaps this sort of question about basic mechanics is being asked more often as some people are relying more and more on watching an independent video review/walkthrough and then just trying to play?

Oft times such videos don't cover all the rules, even some main points, or they show them in play without stating the actual rules.

While I can understand people using this approach, I am often surprised their first impulse is to post a question here rather than read the rules first.

Perhaps our focus on visual media and the decline of literacy is seen here?

In any case, I'm glad we have a great online community who can help answer these questions, hopefully courteously.
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Jeremy Santiago
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SirRoke wrote:
Esgaldil wrote:
SSGMightyMouse wrote:
But the ones I've come across on AH LCG make me wonder if people are reading the rulebook.


Some of them certainly aren't, and some of them quite straightforwardly let us know that they haven't read the rulebook.

Perhaps this sort of question about basic mechanics is being asked more often as some people are relying more and more on watching an independent video review/walkthrough and then just trying to play?

Oft times such videos don't cover all the rules, even some main points, or they show them in play without stating the actual rules.

While I can understand people using this approach, I am often surprised their first impulse is to post a question here rather than read the rules first.

Perhaps our focus on visual media and the decline of literacy is seen here?

In any case, I'm glad we have a great online community who can help answer these questions, hopefully courteously.


Well said, and I think you have a point on the reliance of videos and forums like this. Reminds me of the person at the table who played on their phone the whole time you were explaining the game. I can be annoyed at them and let them know they're ruining my game experience. Honestly, it's a mild annoyance, but it bugs me enough to want to comment openly. Take a look at the forum post just before my own. That was the final straw. I mean, c'mon. I can understand asking a question of specific timing of a card or action, or even deck building rules and such. Yes, the game has plenty of situations that would warrant a rules guru to comment and clarify. But a question about the icons on the side of a card? It's annoying.
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Patrik Severinsson
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Citizen Badger wrote:
Perhaps you're confused and think that they're suggesting you can get through it flawlessly? Because they even say you can't. It's meant to get you playing and then when a card says do X, you go what is X? Then proceed to find X in the (alphabetized) RRG. You read what X is and continue. Then later Y happens, then Z. Rinse and repeat.
Yes, I'm confused.
So confused that I've imagined multiple pages of rules questions where the person asking can't even find the answer some of the most basic concepts in the rules reference. Concepts that probably should have been explained in the 'Learn to play' document. Isn't the sheer amount of rules questions about basic things evidence enough that the rules reference format isn't working out for a lot of people. It can't be that hard to acknowledge that people seem to be having more trouble learning/finding rules when they are structured alphabetically instead of in the order they impact the game.

I do however agree that a lot of the rules questions could have been avoided if people just bothered to check the rules reference, but there are also a lot of questions where the answer is not just as easily found as just looking up a specific keyword. Sometimes X is explained in rules paragraph Y, and Y does not have a clear connection to X.
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Christian Kløve
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chicklewis wrote:
Made me laugh, Kieve, THANKS for that, and merry Christmas.


Thanks . The same to you.
 
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Matthew Moore
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Helikoputtrik wrote:
I think most of the questions arises because FFG claims you can actually play the game after (or even at the time of) reading the 'Learn to play' booklet. Unfortunately, you don't really learn to play the game good enough by reading that document.


I was just about to say this. The LtP booklet was not helpful entirely!
 
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MC Shudde M'ell
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Video Games have certainly encouraged me to ignore the rulebook entirely and just learn the game by playing the game. I consider myself a very literate person - I read a wide range of fiction, nonfiction, and technical manuals - but rulebooks aren't always fun or engaging to read, and gaming is exactly when I might want to take a break from demanding or dull tasks. It's also worth noting that there are many gamers struggling to become conversant in English, and there are young people every day picking up a game for the first time without a clear understanding of the difference between something like this and Monopoly (or they learned MtG from their friends when they were seven and never had to actually look at the rules themselves).

It's possible that literacy is on the decline, but I consider anyone at all who picks up a board game or card game instead of a video game to be part of the solution, not part of the problem. Similarly, I prefer text to video, and would like the interactive text in which rules are learned to be a viable alternative to the many video tutorials (I applaud the craft of constructing such a thing, I just happen to have a visceral preference for text, and I'm sure I'm not the only one).
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Scott Hill
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SSGMightyMouse wrote:
It's annoying.

Some of us enjoy answering people's questions about rules. It helps them and we ourselves improve our own understanding of the game.

If that's not for you, and you find it annoying, fine, just move on by.

You don't have to read the questions.
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Kelly N.
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Sp00ns wrote:
The forums are here to help each other out and discuss the game. There's absolutely nothing wrong with posting questions about the rules. I know this is a really good solitaire game, doesn't need to be a solitaire community.


Quoted for truth!

Do NOT become elitist in this great hobby. Nothing drives players away from the written word of board gaming quicker than folks who deem themselves so intelligent that they can't stoop to answering easy rules questions...even those questions that are often repeated and/or are simply fundamental in nature.
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Jeremy Santiago
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Scorpion0x17 wrote:
SSGMightyMouse wrote:
It's annoying.

Some of us enjoy answering people's questions about rules. It helps them and we ourselves improve our own understanding of the game.

If that's not for you, and you find it annoying, fine, just move on by.

You don't have to read the questions.


That's cool. But people ask dumb questions and I can express that here too. If someone's feelings are hurt they can ignore my posts just as well.
 
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MC Shudde M'ell
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SSGMightyMouse wrote:
Scorpion0x17 wrote:
SSGMightyMouse wrote:
It's annoying.

Some of us enjoy answering people's questions about rules. It helps them and we ourselves improve our own understanding of the game.

If that's not for you, and you find it annoying, fine, just move on by.

You don't have to read the questions.


That's cool. But people ask dumb questions and I can express that here too. If someone's feelings are hurt they can ignore my posts just as well.


Hurting someone's feelings, and calling someone dumb, is not always easy to ignore. For every gamer who asks a question, it's safe to assume that there are a hundred who have that question and aren't having an easier time with the printed rules, but don't have the necessary confidence or English fluency to type that question out and post it here. You are absolutely free to express your own feelings and frustrations, but insulting and generalizing about people you don't know isn't the same thing. I would encourage you to try to express your own feelings in a way that describes your self and your experiences, without trying to describe anyone else.

I'm glad you're contributing to this forum, and there are clearly a great many others who share your perspective, so thanks for taking the time to express yourself.
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Jeremy Santiago
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First, let me defuse this before more overly sensitive people respond. I said there were stupid questions, NOT stupid people. You added that on your own. Second, I admit that I ask plenty of stupid questions. People point them out to me and I don't wither and die. Slow down, ok. I didn't think this was going to ignite the masses. I'm gonna leave the mic right here...
 
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MC Shudde M'ell
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SSGMightyMouse wrote:
First, let me defuse this before more overly sensitive people respond. I said there were stupid questions, NOT stupid people. You added that on your own. Second, I admit that I ask plenty of stupid questions. People point them out to me and I don't wither and die. Slow down, ok. I didn't think this was going to ignite the masses. I'm gonna leave the mic right here...


I did infer that dumb questions are asked by dumb people, but that's not a huge leap, and you should be aware that I'm not the only one who would make it. Again, I'm glad you're saying what you're saying and I don't want to shut you down. I do think it's possible that you are thinking about other people as being similar to yourself when some of them are very different, including their emotional reaction to a comment like "You asked a dumb question" - which you have not done here about a specific commenter, and I appreciate that. The mic will be ready when you have need of it again. I probably am overly sensitive, but I also love to talk and listen to people who disagree with me, and I look forward to learning from you, if that won't bother you excessively or make you feel uncomfortable about contributing more.
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Rob Rob
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Many times people post what are essentially rhetorical questions. When you read "card A does effect B?" They aren't looking for a debate, they are just looking for confirmation.


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Christian Kløve
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I know it's trite, but the only dumb questions are the ones, you don't ask. I would rather have the same questions asked again and again - and answered - than having a community where people fear asking. Sure, the search feature is sometimes underused, but if someone is asking for help, either provide it or ignore it as you choose.
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