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Subject: clarification on RD across Khartoum-Aswan rss

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Chester
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Using regular OPS for movement across Khartoum-Aswan or vice versa uses ALL movement points for those units. They must start adjacent (in one of those two spaces) and end their movement in the other.

The FAQ indicates that Redeploy moves also are constrained by the K-A limit.

Does this mean:

- If I RD across those spaces I must also start the round already in one of those spaces.

OR

- If I RD across those spaces, I may start further inland on either side, but must STOP my redeploy as soon as I cross the water. (Could I RD from Cairo to Khartoum in one move, or must I use two?)
 
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Jeffrey D Myers
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It's the latter, Chester.
 
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Steve
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Pretty sure it's the latter...
 
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Chester
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I think its the latter, too, but this passage from the FAQ/end of the Living Rules seems a bit vague to me.

Quote:
Question: While the lines connecting Khartoum and the East
Africa map say it takes all of a unit’s movement points, why
wouldn't they just Redeploy up to the front line in NA? Is RD
considered movement?

Answer: They still have to stop. Redeployment is considered
movement.


"redeployment is considered movement" is the thing causing me a bit of trouble. It takes "all movement" to cross the water there, so this might argue that you cannot have RDed from further inland. I don't like or agree with that interpretation, but the letter of the rules is a bit vague.
 
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Brian Morris
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cornjob wrote:

"redeployment is considered movement" is the thing causing me a bit of trouble. It takes "all movement" to cross the water there, so this might argue that you cannot have RDed from further inland. I don't like or agree with that interpretation, but the letter of the rules is a bit vague.


Exactly and I don't think it's vague at all. Strategic redeployment is movement. To move between Khartoum and Aswan takes all a unit's movement. So if you want to use strategic redeployment to move from Khartoum to Aswan or visa versa you must start in one and end at the other. So for example you can't start your SR move one space away from Khartoum and end it in Aswan.
 
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Chester
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Right, not vague at all....except that the posters above have a different interpretation.

I think the spirit of the rule is that you can redeploy from inland and must stop immediately after crossing...but its not stated so. I'm looking for a ruling, I guess.
 
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Chester
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To be clear, the rules state it uses "all a unit's movement factor" (MF, on the map itself). To me "movement factor" is synonymous with movement points. So it uses all points to move across. But you don't have or use movement points or MF when redeploying. This is what I find a bit confusing.

 
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Brian Morris
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cornjob wrote:

I think the spirit of the rule is that you can redeploy from inland and must stop immediately after crossing...but its not stated so. I'm looking for a ruling, I guess.


No. The FAQ is crystal clear on the point. It takes all of your movement to move between Khartoum and Aswan. Strategic redeployment is movement. You start your SR move in one and end it at the other. You can't move any farther or start somewhere else and move through the first and end on the second. If you could move father it would say you could move father. There is no spirit of the rule here. It's 100% clear.
 
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Chester
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I tend to agree with this reading, but I'll point out that the other two people who responded didn't think it was so crystal clear, either, since they both endorsed example #2.
 
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Brian Morris
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cornjob wrote:
To be clear, the rules state it uses "all a movement's movement factor" (MF, on the map itself). To me "movement factor" is synonymous with movement points. So it uses all points to move across. But you don't have or use movement points or MF when redeploying. This is what I find a bit confusing.



The line that is important here. "Redeployment is considered movement." It takes all your movement to move between Khartoum and Aswan. To move between the two cities you must start your movement in one and it takes all of your movement to move to the other.
 
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Jeffrey D Myers
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I believe that this was discussed for an extended period on ConsimWorld, and Michael came down on the side of interpretation #2. Anyone want to search for it? Keyword Aswan might do the trick....
 
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Chester
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I tried that. Someone asked and Mike Rinella answered. He cited a few rules which basically reiterate the rules of RD, the limited movement allowed by the Khartoum/Aswan connection and that units using RD must stop upon entering or exiting the East Africa map. Still doesn't answer clearly whether they must begin the RD in Khartoum or might be further inland.

I've emailed him and hopefully he'll weigh in. If the answer is on the monster Consimworld thread, I can't find it. I'm sure there's a lot of good stuff on that thread, but its so hard to know where to look...and I have not had good luck with the search engine there.
 
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Chester
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Thanks!
 
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Chester
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I'd like to point out that, once again, Mr Rinella shows post-production support (love) for his game above and beyond the call of duty. I know I have been a bit hard on Shifting Sand's limitations in some of my comments, but I still really enjoy playing....and there is no question that its designer cares about people being able to play his game to full effect. I wish all games had the same level of intimate interaction with the designer so readily accessible.
 
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Jeffrey D Myers
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Here, here! Be sure to seek out his latest game, Not War But Murder, if you are at all interested in the U.S. Civil War.
 
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Simone Fantini
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Hello from Italy. We had same problem yesterday. We followed the FAQ and not the Rinella's advise.
By the way I had an "italian idea" about Karthoum RD affaire....

We will bid the rule
The bid is called: "Camels or Trucks ?"

Is possible to defend Karthoum with any version of the rule but is the cost to do it and the speed to do it the difference.....
So thinking about the reality and to the historical fact that italians never get Karthoum.....the difference will be the speed neeeded by Indians (the only infantry division available the first turn) to cross the desert ....with trucks or camels ...
Of course do not imitate our ideacool

bye

simon
 
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Jackson Riker
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The problem w/saying RD IS Movement, and therefore you must stop before making the crossing is that it effectively Eliminates the RD into Khartoum option.
RD is like movement, but it is a tad different, for example it costs WAY more to do it, so it should be given a bit of an advantage.

I mean what player would RD up to Aswan, stop and then spend a movement op to move, why not simply move from Port Said and stop, and then move. You have wasted a precious turn RDing. Anyway, it's a moot point now that Mike weighed in.....
 
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