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Alchemists: The King's Golem» Forums » Rules

Subject: two questions - approval token and under-counter artifact rss

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raist anient
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Q1 - Are players allowed to decline to take approval tokens when they receive it as a reward, either through golem tests or otherwise? I ask because I had a game where A and B were fighting for first place and B knew that C needed an approval token to buy the under-counter artifact. A also wants the under-counter artifact but A already has an approval token. B is 1st in turn order, C is 2nd and A is last. The round only has 1 approval token. Both B and C go to golem test. Can B decline to take the approval token so that C can take it and buy the under-counter artifact before A ?

Q2 - I know we set aside 4 artifacts for each age at the start of the game and players know which artifacts are coming out later. But do we also know which is the artifact that is designated as the under-table artifact? Or is it only determined when the age arrives?
 
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Nicola Bocchetta
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Q2: Yes, you know what the under-the-counter artifacts are from the start of the game.
 
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Nicola Bocchetta
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Q1: I see why B would want to do that. But doing so B is renouncing to buy anbother u-t-c artifact later, or accessing the Royal Encyclopaedia.
I don't have an answer for your question.
 
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David desJardins
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Step 8 under Test Golem is, "If any approval tokens are left on the action space, take 1 and keep it on your player board." That rule seems pretty clear. What argument do you have for there being a choice?
 
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raist anient
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DaviddesJ wrote:
Step 8 under Test Golem is, "If any approval tokens are left on the action space, take 1 and keep it on your player board." That rule seems pretty clear. What argument do you have for there being a choice?


in most games, you are allowed to refuse rewards even if it is not explicitly spelt out that you can. i know the wording appears mandatory, but it seems to me that the designers may not have anticipated a situation where people could potentially want to refuse a reward because it might be beneficial to them.
 
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raist anient
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Faso74it wrote:
Q1: I see why B would want to do that. But doing so B is renouncing to buy anbother u-t-c artifact later, or accessing the Royal Encyclopaedia.
I don't have an answer for your question.


this was the last round of the game so it was quite clear to B that giving up the approval token would be better for him.
 
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David desJardins
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anient wrote:
in most games, you are allowed to refuse rewards even if it is not explicitly spelt out that you can.


No, you aren't. I have played hundreds of games and I can't even think of one such.

Quote:
it seems to me that the designers may not have anticipated a situation where people could potentially want to refuse a reward because it might be beneficial to them.


Whether they anticipated it, or not, doesn't matter. The rules are the rules regardless of what the author anticipated. You can try to convince them to change the rules, but I very much doubt you'll succeed.
 
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Nathanaël Dufour
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DaviddesJ wrote:
anient wrote:
in most games, you are allowed to refuse rewards even if it is not explicitly spelt out that you can.


No, you aren't. I have played hundreds of games and I can't even think of one such.

Quote:
it seems to me that the designers may not have anticipated a situation where people could potentially want to refuse a reward because it might be beneficial to them.


Whether they anticipated it, or not, doesn't matter. The rules are the rules regardless of what the author anticipated. You can try to convince them to change the rules, but I very much doubt you'll succeed.

You know, while most of the time you're technically correct (the best kind of correct ), sometimes you come out as really aggressive. It might just be me having trouble parsing your tone, in which case, I apologize.

As it is, there ARE many games (probably not MOST games) were rewards are not mandatory but the rules omet to specify it, or only specify it in an obscure corner somewhere in the rule book.

As an example of one game I know you've played : in SeaFall you can sometimes forego the reward after a raid.


When it comes to Alchimists, since Matús is usually cristal clear in the rulebook I would tend to follow the letter of the law : B has to take it. But I could be wrong.


Since Matús checks often on the forum, we might get an offical confirmation.
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Brett Thomason
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Or you could all just stop and think about for 5 seconds and realize that the answer is the first player has to change his mind and place his cubes in the unused section
 
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