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Subject: Hearing Feb or March... what are your sources saying? rss

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David Barlowe
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Checked three different FLGSs in two different states, they are all saying February or March before they receive any more product.

Anyone else seeing or hearing anything different?
 
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Robbie M.
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I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror
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Gabriel Alonso
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Some more product should be out in mid to late Jan.
 
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james kieffer
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I contacted 4 different stores today, and heard early March from 2 of them and mid toblate January from the other 2. The final store I stopped at had just gotten in a box in their shipment today.
 
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I don't know what the release schedule is, but could FFG potentially hold off releasing the next set as a result of not meeting demand for the first? My only other deep experience with LCG/CCG world is Netrunner and I have to say the Destiny meta is crazy weird to me. You have podcasts and videos from many months ago going in deep on the "current meta," and that seems to have cycled over many times to a totally new place...and yet most people don't even have the game and none of my game stores locally are running tournaments yet.
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Michael Wagner
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I'm in the St. Louis area and stores are getting booster boxes sporatically. I just got 20 packs today. Miniature Market should have a bunch right after the first of the year. I would be shocked if it goes until March...
 
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John Wiser
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The problem with Miniature Market is that they open a lot of boxes to sell as singles. I have a box on preorder and my wife preordered a box for me for Christmas from MM and we have no idea when we will get them and with them opening so many boxes to sell as singles that wait can be even longer.

I live an hour away from MM and purchase almost all of my games and supply from them so they are my go to when it comes to this hobby that I enjoy. When I paid for my box at the beginning of December it stated this box would come in early January however this is just a round about time as these dates are not solid as they can, and often do, change in a blink of an eye.

Last time I spoke with a worker at MM he said it looks to be more mid-late January. So that would be on target for what others have been hearing as well.
 
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Eric Borgh
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Phuntom wrote:
Checked three different FLGSs in two different states, they are all saying February or March before they receive any more product.

Anyone else seeing or hearing anything different?

sadly "information" from FLGS have ALWAYS been horrible. most don't have any better information (or sources) than most of us.. and most that seem to "contact" their distributor do so through the distributor's website and base their info (and guesses) from what the site tells them.

Team Covenant seems to have the closest relationship to FFG, and they are saying early January for booster boxes and saga sets.. So early January (as early as next week!!!) seems like a safe bet.

Anyone saying Feb or Mar honestly is making stuff up, and I would be concerned at ANY info coming from them, like.. ever...

on top of that, in Milwaukee there is still product available.. at least a couple of shops still have packs, and one shop (so far the only one) even has an unopened box yet. So while still scarce, it's still not as bad as the beginning of the month here.
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David Barlowe
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borghe wrote:
Phuntom wrote:
Checked three different FLGSs in two different states, they are all saying February or March before they receive any more product.

Anyone else seeing or hearing anything different?

sadly "information" from FLGS have ALWAYS been horrible. most don't have any better information (or sources) than most of us.. and most that seem to "contact" their distributor do so through the distributor's website and base their info (and guesses) from what the site tells them.

Team Covenant seems to have the closest relationship to FFG, and they are saying early January for booster boxes and saga sets.. So early January (as early as next week!!!) seems like a safe bet.

Anyone saying Feb or Mar honestly is making stuff up, and I would be concerned at ANY info coming from them, like.. ever...

on top of that, in Milwaukee there is still product available.. at least a couple of shops still have packs, and one shop (so far the only one) even has an unopened box yet. So while still scarce, it's still not as bad as the beginning of the month here.


Interesting point.

I was hoping to aggregate the responses here to get a better prediction, so I appreciate your contribution in that regard.

No FLGS within an hour of me, so I generally have to shop online. I try to buy retail when it makes sense, particularly when I am traveling.

However, that means CSI is my main "store", and as of today they are not even willing to take my money for a preorder (or they've already sold out of their next shipment).

I'm doubting that next week they'll have it in stock. But we'll see I suppose.

One of the stores here where I am vacationing said that if they HAD product they be selling it on eBay for double or triple retail price instead of even stocking it in their store.

Say what you want about that as a sustainable practice, but it seemed interesting in light of what's going on with availability right now.
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Seth Dortch
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Phuntom wrote:
borghe wrote:
Phuntom wrote:
Checked three different FLGSs in two different states, they are all saying February or March before they receive any more product.

Anyone else seeing or hearing anything different?

sadly "information" from FLGS have ALWAYS been horrible. most don't have any better information (or sources) than most of us.. and most that seem to "contact" their distributor do so through the distributor's website and base their info (and guesses) from what the site tells them.

Team Covenant seems to have the closest relationship to FFG, and they are saying early January for booster boxes and saga sets.. So early January (as early as next week!!!) seems like a safe bet.

Anyone saying Feb or Mar honestly is making stuff up, and I would be concerned at ANY info coming from them, like.. ever...

on top of that, in Milwaukee there is still product available.. at least a couple of shops still have packs, and one shop (so far the only one) even has an unopened box yet. So while still scarce, it's still not as bad as the beginning of the month here.


Interesting point.

I was hoping to aggregate the responses here to get a better prediction, so I appreciate your contribution in that regard.

No FLGS within an hour of me, so I generally have to shop online. I try to buy retail when it makes sense, particularly when I am traveling.

However, that means CSI is my main "store", and as of today they are not even willing to take my money for a preorder (or they've already sold out of their next shipment).

I'm doubting that next week they'll have it in stock. But we'll see I suppose.

One of the stores here where I am vacationing said that if they HAD product they be selling it on eBay for double or triple retail price instead of even stocking it in their store.

Say what you want about that as a sustainable practice, but it seemed interesting in light of what's going on with availability right now.


See that's worrisome to me. Take Marvel Dice Masters. That stupid Avengers versus X-Men starter sold out. And never dropped back to MSRP. Darn thing still costs $30 to this day. I think the under producing of this initial might keep prices inflated for a long time to come.
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Frank Judnick
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Based on everything I've read and heard from the internet and FLGSs (including past experiences with Dice Masters) Here is what I can SPECULATE:

1. Anything you hear from a source is true. If a FLGS says they aren't getting it until (insert date), that's probably when they are getting product.

2. There are many different distributors, and as far as I know, most FLGS use 1 distributor primarily. It makes sense to only have one, therefore keeping a solid business relationship with that one distributor means you are likely to get priority/be favored over other stores. IMO-that's how small businesses operate.

For instance, of the 2 stores in my local area:
Store 1 received 2 starters and 3 boxes on release day (they had plenty more ordered, but were severely allocated). Since release, they've received one more booster box, and 0 additional starters that they asked for.

Store 2 received a buttload of starters the Monday after release, but haven't gotten any boosters in stock.

I am of the opinion that these stores use different distributors, and based on their relationship with those distributors, received different amounts of product. Some distributors are probably better at shipping stuff to you immediately so stores have it in time for release. Other distributors probably are cheaper, but also might be in a different part of the country, making for shipping delays and things being released later.

Another point -
If a store has a good track record of moving Fantasy Flight product (and maybe even Asomodee product now)...especially X-Wing, Armada, and the LCG stuff...then that store stands a good shot of receiving extra product, and getting that product first. I'm not sure, but I'm betting these reports of stores getting ungodly amounts of product in probably have a giant X-Wing base. It makes sense to get the most product to the stores known for moving the product, and giving priority to the stores that are the most likely to hook in the most customers. (It seems like stores that got a ton of Dice Masters, even when stock was limited, were the stores that sold lots of HeroClix).

Another giant speculation on my part is that if stores opt to sell things above MSRP, or hold product to sell online above MSRP, and if that information gets to the Companies and they don't approve, that may hurt a stores' relationship and standing with those companies.

So things to consider are:
A Stores relationship with their distributor.
A Stores relationship with FFG.
A distributors relationship with FFG.

To Speak on the Different Timing Windows from different sources--

Again, to speculate from what I've heard:

-FFG didn't make enough product (do they ever?)
-What they did make, they wanted out as much as possible by Xmas (why wouldn't you?)
-There were misprinted dice, and the wrong dice in packs...delaying product going out. (especially boosters)
-The game received much more hype and traction after GenCon, Pre-Release events, and the Team Convenient Coverage.

All that stuff explains how product was coming out in waves, with starters, then boosters, mostly before Xmas.

I'm of the belief that anyone being told "January" was on the list from the start to receive tons of product from the 1st wave of production.

Anyone being told "March" is because they are getting stuff from the 2nd Wave of production (most likely ordered after the hype exploded after GenCon and the Pre-Release Events). The stores and people being told March most likely missed the boat on the earlier option to pre-order, or they haven't moved much FFG product in the past and are being put down the priority list.

Again, this is all similar to what happened with Dice Masters: AvX. (Wave 1 product supply was one-ninth of what it could have been, with 2 more waves trickling in...one AFTER the 2nd set (Uncanny X-men) was released).

Where/How to get stuff ASAP or at all???--

Pre-Order (probably from an online store if you want it ASAP)
Online stores get ridiculous product, and should have enough once wave 2 hits to satisfy everyone.
Even an local shop will eventually get stuff for you if you PRE-ORDER, but again might get allocated if demand is through the roof.

This is the Debut set, people are frothing at the mouth and jumping out of their pants, and will continue to do so. With the scarcity, demand with remain high (probably always~ the first set of Dice Masters was always kind of hard to come by in the wild).

Since demand is crazy, be prepared for people with nothing better to do think they are the greatest con-artist small economy "flipper/hawks" get-rich-quick schemers to buy up all the product they can to sell on a secondary market...another reason I believe the 1st Dice Masters to be tough to get. (Have I mentioned that these types of people are dumb, aren't making enough money based on the time investment they are making, and are just all around making it difficult for people to enjoy the game???...jerks!)



TLDR -

1. Don't expect anything from any source sooner than what they tell you. If anything, expect delays. Stores will have different timetables, they are not screwing you or lying to you on purpose.

2. PRE-ORDER, PRE-ORDER, PRE-ORDER.
This insures you get product once it's available, and offers security from those looking to make a quick inefficient buck off the new hotness. Don't expect to ever find the debut set in the wild, or for a discount. Unless FFG does something different from Wizkids, they probably won't deviate from releasing the second set on the dates they have already established and decided.

I'd recommend supporting your FLGS so long as they are Friendly...if they are raising MSRP or just in general not inviting or friendly...go online. If you really really can't wait...go with the online store that has the soonest expected shipment coming in...again I fear you probably missed the boat if you haven't ordered yet and are probably looking at the wave 2 shipment expected in late Feb/March.


Again, all speculation and musings...I could be dead wrong. I could be an uninformed liar. This is just what I think.

Good luck to anyone hoping to get product...(again, order it from somewhere if you are at all interested...don't just expect it to pop up somewhere...way too many hawks and "gotta catch em all" types out there.
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Erik Schmidt
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fwj_777 wrote:
Since demand is crazy, be prepared for people with nothing better to do think they are the greatest con-artist small economy "flipper/hawks" get-rich-quick schemers to buy up all the product they can to sell on a secondary market...another reason I believe the 1st Dice Masters to be tough to get. (Have I mentioned that these types of people are dumb, aren't making enough money based on the time investment they are making, and are just all around making it difficult for people to enjoy the game???...jerks!)



-Maybe it's not the mediocre profits that drive them? Ever think they do for the pure joy of it?
 
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Doug DeMoss
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St0ckpile wrote:
Maybe it's not the mediocre profits that drive them? Ever think they do for the pure joy of it?


This is Asmodee we're talking about.
 
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Witold G
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fwj_777 wrote:
For instance, of the 2 stores in my local area:
Store 1 received 2 starters and 3 boxes on release day (they had plenty more ordered, but were severely allocated). Since release, they've received one more booster box, and 0 additional starters that they asked for.

Store 2 received a buttload of starters the Monday after release, but haven't gotten any boosters in stock.

I am of the opinion that these stores use different distributors, and based on their relationship with those distributors, received different amounts of product. Some distributors are probably better at shipping stuff to you immediately so stores have it in time for release. Other distributors probably are cheaper, but also might be in a different part of the country, making for shipping delays and things being released later.

Might be not 100% applicable, but here's how it looks in comic book retailing (the so called "direct market", with a de facto Diamond Distributors monopoly in US):
1. Retailers can place initial their orders before the Final Order Cut-off (FOC) date to have their orders guaranteed.
2. Publisher sets the initial print run based on orders placed before FOC.
3. Retailers can place additional orders after FOC as well, but they're not guaranteed.
4. When distributor receives initial shipment, all guaranteed orders placed before FOC are fulfilled. Then, if the orders placed after FOC exceed the remaining stock at distributor, the retailers are allocated. For example: if total orders placed after FOC are twice as much as remaining stock, each retailer gets 50% of their after-FOC orders.

As you can see, store 1 and store 2 can have the same distributor, with the differences between the stock they received easily explainable by how well they anticipated the initial demand and therefore how much they ordered before FOC (or however the gaming industry equivalent - if any - is named).

It's more likely for the FLGS to say "we had plenty more ordered, but were severely allocated" than to admit "we haven't anticipated the demand correctly and when we realised the game is hot, we ordered plenty, but it was too late".


fwj_777 wrote:
Another point -
If a store has a good track record of moving Fantasy Flight product (and maybe even Asomodee product now)...especially X-Wing, Armada, and the LCG stuff...then that store stands a good shot of receiving extra product, and getting that product first. I'm not sure, but I'm betting these reports of stores getting ungodly amounts of product in probably have a giant X-Wing base. It makes sense to get the most product to the stores known for moving the product, and giving priority to the stores that are the most likely to hook in the most customers. (It seems like stores that got a ton of Dice Masters, even when stock was limited, were the stores that sold lots of HeroClix).

I sincerely doubt that someone manually processes hundreds, if not thousands retailer accounts that way, deciding who should receive stock first.

Retailer which moves plenty of X-Wing and/or other FFG products is much more likely to pay closer attention to every FFG new release - and therefore to correctly anticipate the demand, and place their initial (before FOC) orders based on this.

Once again, it might be not how it works here, all of this is based on my experience in another industry a few years ago, but makes perfect sense to me.
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Robbie M.
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Perf wrote:
It's more likely for the FLGS to say "we had plenty more ordered, but were severely allocated" than to admit "we haven't anticipated the demand correctly and when we realised the game is hot, we ordered plenty, but it was too late".

This is my conclusion as well. Hopefully in the coming weeks none of it will matter and the second set release will be more smooth. Better get those pre-orders in now just in case.
 
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Frank Judnick
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Perf wrote:
fwj_777 wrote:
For instance, of the 2 stores in my local area:
Store 1 received 2 starters and 3 boxes on release day (they had plenty more ordered, but were severely allocated). Since release, they've received one more booster box, and 0 additional starters that they asked for.

Store 2 received a buttload of starters the Monday after release, but haven't gotten any boosters in stock.

I am of the opinion that these stores use different distributors, and based on their relationship with those distributors, received different amounts of product. Some distributors are probably better at shipping stuff to you immediately so stores have it in time for release. Other distributors probably are cheaper, but also might be in a different part of the country, making for shipping delays and things being released later.

Might be not 100% applicable, but here's how it looks in comic book retailing (the so called "direct market", with a de facto Diamond Distributors monopoly in US):
1. Retailers can place initial their orders before the Final Order Cut-off (FOC) date to have their orders guaranteed.
2. Publisher sets the initial print run based on orders placed before FOC.
3. Retailers can place additional orders after FOC as well, but they're not guaranteed.
4. When distributor receives initial shipment, all guaranteed orders placed before FOC are fulfilled. Then, if the orders placed after FOC exceed the remaining stock at distributor, the retailers are allocated. For example: if total orders placed after FOC are twice as much as remaining stock, each retailer gets 50% of their after-FOC orders.

As you can see, store 1 and store 2 can have the same distributor, with the differences between the stock they received easily explainable by how well they anticipated the initial demand and therefore how much they ordered before FOC (or however the gaming industry equivalent - if any - is named).

It's more likely for the FLGS to say "we had plenty more ordered, but were severely allocated" than to admit "we haven't anticipated the demand correctly and when we realised the game is hot, we ordered plenty, but it was too late".


fwj_777 wrote:
Another point -
If a store has a good track record of moving Fantasy Flight product (and maybe even Asomodee product now)...especially X-Wing, Armada, and the LCG stuff...then that store stands a good shot of receiving extra product, and getting that product first. I'm not sure, but I'm betting these reports of stores getting ungodly amounts of product in probably have a giant X-Wing base. It makes sense to get the most product to the stores known for moving the product, and giving priority to the stores that are the most likely to hook in the most customers. (It seems like stores that got a ton of Dice Masters, even when stock was limited, were the stores that sold lots of HeroClix).

I sincerely doubt that someone manually processes hundreds, if not thousands retailer accounts that way, deciding who should receive stock first.

Retailer which moves plenty of X-Wing and/or other FFG products is much more likely to pay closer attention to every FFG new release - and therefore to correctly anticipate the demand, and place their initial (before FOC) orders based on this.

Once again, it might be not how it works here, all of this is based on my experience in another industry a few years ago, but makes perfect sense to me.


I'm not sure if board games are as easy to manufacture as comic books are, but I have no idea. I'd envision ordering printed pages to be more flexible than ordering the production of all kinds of cardboard and plastic. I'm guessing it is similar, but the factories that make games might no let you customize specific amounts. Additionally, it seems that not many in the board game industry order before a FOC...I'd imagine that unless it's a staple like Magic, it's just too easy to get burned.

As for the comments on moving X-Wing correlating to Destiny stock...I like your theory much better than mine. It makes much more sense that it is a stores responsibility, and that a major company like FFG/ANA (or the distributors) don't have time for such nonsense. I guess the main point wasn't the corporate level to where it was coming from, but that there is a correlation.
I also hate criticizing my FLGSs in any way. it's not an easy gig and we gamers are a "type" (controlling know-it-alls) so the level of scrutiny given by Simpsons' "Comic Book Store Guy" types (over things as material and trivial as hobby games) has always been a bar I won't allow myself to sink too far under.
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David Barlowe
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fwj_777 wrote:
I also hate criticizing my FLGSs in any way. it's not an easy gig and we gamers are a "type" (controlling know-it-alls) so the level of scrutiny given by Simpsons' "Comic Book Store Guy" types (over things as material and trivial as hobby games) has always been a bar I won't allow myself to sink too far under.


Well said. And considering the amount of gross profit generated by Destiny sales for a medium to low volume store, it's certainly not something get too upset about.

Stores should certainly not be blamed for not having stock for speculators or band-wagon jumpers either. I have to put myself in the band-wagon camp actually, as the energy and enthusiasm coming from the fans of this game is definitely making it more appealing to me.


Hey, who likes to play these silly hobby games in a vacuum? And when a game is enthusiastically taken up by hoards of gamers (somewhat like vultures circling a fresh kill), sometimes there is meat there.

I had a chance to try a sample game with two starter packs over the weekend, and even with just 20 cards, I can see this one is going to be a good one. Can't wait for CSI to send me that "email notification" that they are back in stock...
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Witold G
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Phuntom wrote:
fwj_777 wrote:
I also hate criticizing my FLGSs in any way. it's not an easy gig and we gamers are a "type" (controlling know-it-alls) so the level of scrutiny given by Simpsons' "Comic Book Store Guy" types (over things as material and trivial as hobby games) has always been a bar I won't allow myself to sink too far under.


Well said. And considering the amount of gross profit generated by Destiny sales for a medium to low volume store, it's certainly not something get too upset about.

Stores should certainly not be blamed for not having stock for speculators or band-wagon jumpers either.


I didn't mean to sound like I was pointing the finger of blame at anyone, I just tried to provide possible (albeit not certain) way to explain some differences in stock between stores, I'm always curious how such things work.

I think that making sure there's enough stock to meet the demand is a shared (or maybe "cooperative" is a better word?) responsibility of both publisher and retailers, but I also believe every business is responsible for their employees, who in turn depend on their employer's financial well-being to provide for their families. So if every business involved makes a safe, conservative decision, I'm more than fine with that.

My comment about how FLGSs might not necessarily provide all the details about the reasons for shortage was probably poorly phrased, but it was not hostile. I fully understand they are trying not to say anything that might provoke a knee-jerk reaction from some customers; it's enough to look at the thread which discussed differences between buying and selling prices for Destiny singles, I cringed at some comments there.

It's a first world problem anyway - temporary shortage of a luxury item...
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David Barlowe
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I've enjoyed reading everyone's comments.

Interesting discussion and thanks to everyone who's chimed in.
 
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matt peterson
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FFG center is getting restocked on Jan 19th. I would think other stores would be getting some around that time or soon after.
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Raf Cordero
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My FLGS had some stuff in stock but wasn't allowed to sell until a specific date. This happened a week or so ago. Not sure how much an effect rules like that are having as well.
 
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Richard Kopacz
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Miniature Market is taking pre-orders that will ship Feb/March 2017 according to the website.

I was hoping the Jan 19th wave would fulfill all orders but it looks like it might take awhile to hit maximum saturation.
 
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