Recommend
45 
 Thumb up
 Hide
36 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

Warhammer 40,000: Battle for Macragge» Forums » Reviews

Subject: Psst. Hey, kid. C'mere. Try this. Its cheap. And Fun. rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Paul DeStefano
United States
Long Island
New York
flag msg tools
designer
badge
It's a Zendrum. www.zendrum.com
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Battle for Macragge is the latest incarnation of a "starter" set for Warhammer 40K.

This is the gateway game for Games Workshop to entice a new generation of raving lunatic fanboys.

I first played WH40K in college, back when it was a hardcover book called "Rogue Trader" that sold for $40 - an outrageous price even then.

My son wanted to get into a sci fi paint your own minis tabletop game. With a garage full of thousands of Nin Gonost minis, he had had enough of knights and orcs.

Genestealers rock, and that's what he wanted to play.

Like any good father, I was torn.

"No, son, don't - it's too expensive. It will ruin your life"
"But its a cornerstone classic of sci fi minis"
"They change the rules to make you buy more"
"Its better than Pokemon"

However, when your little boy's eyes widen "Whoa! Look at those claws! Look, these ones have guns! Wow! Look at these other guys they make."

Well, all self control is lost to fulfilling that little boys latest want.

See, those of you NOT into the Games Workshop scene may not understand any of this. Games Workshop will not flich at charging you $14 (US) for a single 1 inch figure. $45 for a model that is a single sprue of plastic. No, I'm not joking at all.

So, here it was. Macragge. 6 truly alien and nasty four armed Genestealers. 10 valiant power armored Space Marines. 10 nasty little Termagant aliens. Drifting jelly like spore mines. A huge shattered wreck of a space ship. Force gate towers from Forbidden Planet. Props like a gaping alien orifice. Rulers. Templates. Rules. A condensed version of the full 40K rule book. Enough for a lot of Space Marine Vs Tyranid (thats what the aliens are called) small actions.

For $40. Sweet toasted bullfrogs on a hotplate, now THAT's a deal.

See, if you were to try to buy all of these components individually from Games Workshop, the total would be somewhere near the price of a small car. See, those of you laughing think that's a joke, and those of you saddly nodding have played these games.

So, we dutifully assembled our models (OK, there were some mishaps, as detailed here: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/967290#967290) and painted them (well, we played as they were in various stages of paintedness, so by the end they were far more painted than when we started).

The rules are very nicely presented in programmed fashion, so that you start with extremely simple scenarios and add on rules. Its a common rules concept for a reason - it works. There are not a ton of scenarios, but there are additional ones online, and of course, the grow your own potetial is ripe.

(My first mission against my son is detailed at http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/115477)

Now, although the game you are playing here is 40K, you're not really using the 40K rules per se.

You are not guided through how to look up a unit's skill, look it up on a table and cross reference it with the opponent's stats. Instead you are told "For this guy to hit that guy, roll X or higher". In the end, the game play is identical, but the mechanics are significantly watered down for ease of digestion.

This worked perfectly for my son (7 when we started, 8 when we wrapped up), and I didn't mind the simplification. There were few enough units that it worked, and we didn't need to know how the numbers were arrived at.

Another huge difference between Macragge and full blown 40K is the army building. While army building in 40K is a tremendous aspect of the game and the cause for many second mortgages, the scenarios presented simply throw the teams at you along with whatever new rules they present.

By the end, theres a good clump of rules to be working with. Drifting spore mines, squad cohesion, assaulting, extra attacks, regroouping, varying types of ammo, special movement cases...

While the way it is presented keeps the rules fairly light compared to the bigger 40K system, there's still quite a bit going on and the final scenario is pretty involved.

However, they have done their work well, having spoon fed you instructions as needed before the climactic scenario. Climactic in that every mini is on the table (or can be). This is a smallish game, with the humans playing 2 squads. Yes, there's definitely enough there to get a flavor of the tactics and its a pretty good minis scenario in its own right. Nicely, most of the scenarios have objectives beyond beating the snot out of the opposing side. Nicely, some have that objective as well.

They also include a micro version of the real 40K rules. which is a nice intent, but poorly executed. See, they left a ton of the fluff out - the art work and the backstory (two things that truly set GW head and shoulders above most competitors), which changed the number of pages. But they didn't change any of the page number references. So when told to refer to a rule on page 54, well, it isn't.

Full blown 40K is also notorious for really badly organized rules. This is semi intentional, forcing you to buy more rule books. However, I wish the same people who struggled to make Macgragge so user friendly would have also taken a crack at the huge complete rules as well.

The game play has some flaws, but theyre more like design choices. Essentially, if you kill that dude with the rcket launcher, some other dude picks it up, making it so you didn't kill that dude with the rocket launcher. Which is OK, it kind of shows why the heroes and specialists are the heroes and specialists - they must be better. Sure, Star Wars COULD have been about Wedge, but knowing he wouldn't become pivotal, we folow another story. Same idea. It would be quite annoying if all of your best guys could be sniped out too quickly. There's also some rules that make it so that even though guy B is tougher, he takes the exact same die roll to kill as guy A, or that against certain opponents, your great shot and your good shot have the same chance to hit. This is due to the lack of granularity of a 6 sided die. There are players who spend hours upon hours min/maxing their armies, knowing these minor points of contention of why use this character if this other cheaper one will survive the same against 90% of their opponents.

The game, as with any non-map based minis game will have its share of innaccuracies and doubt. All I can say is, know your opponents. If they are rules lawyering idiots, it won't be fun. If you're more the "Well, I guess we let me take that last shot, so I'll say you can hit me here" players, then things will go swimmingly. Generally, you measure the move out of one or two guys in a squad and kind of shuffle the others about, knowing they don't need to be measured. If someone insists on a ruler for each guy... Its gonna take a while.

Is there luck? Loads. Strategy, sure. But playing Games Workshop games is a much larger hobby than the actual game. The metagame of collecting and painting and modifying and army building and terrain making is a huge and enjoyable past time.

Macragge is the tip of the iceberg. For some players, it will be the start of a much larger hobby. In looking to just play Macragge, the game is solid. The scenarios can be played over and over (and we did) trying different strategies. Not as replayable as if you were tweaking your army, but still fun a few times.

When looking to expand beyond Macragge, I picked up the armiy books for my son and myself. They are hugely different than when I played many years ago, and just those two army lists cost me almost as much as this base set. When my son saw that THREE new tyranids would set him back $30, and he wanted a unit of 7... Well, there's yet another reason his Gameboy gets so much play.

40K has been around for a long time. There's reasons. It is NOT the
best game out there. But it might be the easiest to find opponents for. The art design is top notch. The component quality excellent.

What you have here is an introductory minis game at an excellent price. It is playable and fun. If you go through these scenarios, you will know whether or not you want to take the nex (fairly large) leap into minis gaming.

If you are a minis gamer, theres some good stuff in here with many years of solid development behind it. Aliens scuttle over wreckage to chew up power armored marines who fire rocket launchers to slow their unending tide. Which can make for some pretty cool stories.
30 
 Thumb up
1.27
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff Coon
United States
Plano
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: Psst. Hey, kid. C'mere. Try this. Its cheap. And Fu
Excellent summary, thanks! A couple of questions on pricing. I checked the GW site, and it looks like the price is $45, not $40. Is there a better price somewhere else? Also, while it's not surprising that adding new miniatures to a base set would be expensive, I was surprised that 3 tyranids would be $30. Were those large models? Would it really cost $70 for a unit of 7? Were those special units, or just regular line troops? And where did you find those prices?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
I will not rest until Biblios is in the Top 100. - Steve Oksienik
United States
Howell
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Well I been watchin' while you been coughin, I've been drinking life while you've been nauseous, and so I drink to health while you kill yourself and I got just one thing that I can offer... Go on and save yourself and take it out on me
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
There's no doubt, its a great game. There's tons of strategy, a lot of luck, and a fair amount of trashtalk if you play with friends. The real aspect of the game is the painting. Good paintjobs make the game come to life. I've since taken to painting Warlord figures cause their cheaper and I prefer a fantasy theme. But the figures in 40K are incredible, but a little to expensive for my blood.

If you can play this game with your child like Geosphere or with a sibling, it can be a great way to have some bonding time. Between the painting and playing, you'll be spending a lot of time together. I don't know if thats justification of GW's pricing, but it helps ease the pain.

Plus if you spend $400 on your army and get 400 hours playtime with it over the course of your life, thats not a bad investment. It costs at least $10 per person to go to a movie for 2 hours which ends up costing $5/hr. If you look at it that way, its really not that expensive at all.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paul DeStefano
United States
Long Island
New York
flag msg tools
designer
badge
It's a Zendrum. www.zendrum.com
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Jeff wrote:
the price is $45, not $40.


Lots of stores discount this. It shouldn't be tough to find a bit lower.

Jeff wrote:
I was surprised that 3 tyranids would be $30. Were those large models? Would it really cost $70 for a unit of 7? Were those special units, or just regular line troops?


3 Tyranid Warriors (The army is the TYRANID army - kind of essential, although they are not "rank and file" units) and a Ripper Swarm (Cannon fodder which cannot be fielded as a single unit) have a list price of $35. Big models? They're bigger than humans, but by no means giants. Technically a unit of 7 would run you $105, since they only come in 3s.

You can get better (not good - better than list) prices at places like ccgarmory.com or your preferred online minis dealer. They get you Macragge for $35 (plus S+H). But again, no joke, there are SINGLE HUMAN figures with a list price of $20. ONE guy. Discounters might sell him them for about $17.

A conservative cost for an army bought by deciding on what you want and then buying it will easily run over $500 and $1000 is a blink away. They sell premade battleforces in the $75-$150 range, but then they choose the models. Its sad, but your wallet can play a very large determining factor in the type of army you field.

5 PLASTIC humans in Terminator armor list at $50.

So, yeah, in general, $10 per mini is where you will stand as a reasonable estimate, assuming you field no large characters or tanks ($60 for a single Land Crusader).
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ken B.
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Quote:
"Its better than Pokemon"



Y'see, that's where your argument was flawed to begin with.

2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
dave boulton
United Kingdom
etchingham
E. Sussex
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
play necromunda and mordheim, they are both better (in my opinion) games and do not require a huge invetment in metal or plastic mins to have a viable gang

necromunda and mordheim can be played with rudimentray cardboard box terrain (althgou moddeling bascs is pretty easy) and what comes in the base sets (still avalaible form games workshop's specialist games store oo no hang on i dont think the necromunda box is avalaible any more but the mordheim one is) http://uk.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.uk?do=List_Mod... if you can find established gamers playing these games you can make a viable gang from just a gang box which cost £20 (althoguh i have no idea about $s) you can also downlaod teh rules for both games for free from the GW sight http://www.specialist-games.com/

also try looking on ebay for stuff!

Walker Red Eye
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paul DeStefano
United States
Long Island
New York
flag msg tools
designer
badge
It's a Zendrum. www.zendrum.com
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
franklincobb wrote:
Quote:
"Its better than Pokemon"



Y'see, that's where your argument was flawed to begin with.



OK, its better than the way MY SON plays Pokemon. He doesn't use the real rules, but rather this bizarre schoolyard hybrid of ever changing rules.

Real Pokemon isn't half bad. But it has subtleties he isn't ready for.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Todd Sweet
United States
Geneva
Illinois
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
My son and I are into 40K, but not like we used to be. However, the only way I could 'afford' it, was to buy almost everything off of eBay!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Travis Reynolds
United States
Amma
West Virginia
flag msg tools
publisher
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: Psst. Hey, kid. C'mere. Try this. Its cheap. And Fu
I will second the look on ebay suggestion. Also, try Bartertown for loads of 40K opportunities.

You used to be able to get 40K stuff on the internet for up to 40% off, but back awhile GW cracked down on it. Now I think the max you are allowed to offer is 20% and there are some odd disclaimers about stores showing the figures on a webpage if they offer higher than a certain percent off. I have not personally dealt with them as a vendor, but I have heard they are tough to deal with.

I actually like the little book in this boxed set. I almost bought one just to get the book (course I can always use more figures...must...have..more...). I like how small it is compared to the big honking main rule book. Yes, the fluff is nice, but not really needed to play the game. The page number references are just plain lazy.

Your write up here is right on target. I found myself nodding a lot. When building a 40K army, you can easily find yourself having spent hundreds of dollars and still only owning 10-20% of what you want. It is actually kind of ridiculous. As bad as that is, its not nearly as bad as how they change the rules every 3-5 years so that you have to buy new books. You would think that a game that has changed rules so many times would finally get them right, but it is definitely one of the most argued over games to ever hit the table.

As you said, who you play with is a huge factor in this game. I played in a tournament at Origins last year and it reminded me why I don't play in 40K tournaments. My Blood Angels have been in the case ever since.

TR
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Trencher for Life
United States
Slidell
Louisiana
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: Psst. Hey, kid. C'mere. Try this. Its cheap. And Fu
Geosphere wrote:
franklincobb wrote:
Quote:
"Its better than Pokemon"



Y'see, that's where your argument was flawed to begin with.



OK, its better than the way MY SON plays Pokemon. He doesn't use the real rules, but rather this bizarre schoolyard hybrid of ever changing rules.

Real Pokemon isn't half bad. But it has subtleties he isn't ready for.


Sounds like Calvinball.
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Monte Lewis
United States
Phoenix
Arizona
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: Psst. Hey, kid. C'mere. Try this. Its cheap. And Fu
WalkerRedEye wrote:
play necromunda and mordheim


Amen.

After taking the GW plunge...umm...4 times now? (2 full 40K armies and 2 full Fantasy Battle armies) I have to say that I find Necromunda, Mordheim, Blood Bowl and even Battlefleet Gothic more to my taste both in it's style of play and it's impact on my pocketbook.

The thing that really makes it shine for me is that your gang/team/whatever is persistent and grows as you play. You end up cheering when your Heavy Bolter gets a Ballistic Skill advance and groaning when you roll Weapon Skill for the 3rd time. In a group of multiple players it becomes even better. Rivalries develop, hatreds form for certain characters. "I'm gunnin' for your boss this game! No mercy!"

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paul DeStefano
United States
Long Island
New York
flag msg tools
designer
badge
It's a Zendrum. www.zendrum.com
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Rliyen wrote:
Geosphere wrote:
franklincobb wrote:
Quote:
"Its better than Pokemon"



Y'see, that's where your argument was flawed to begin with.



OK, its better than the way MY SON plays Pokemon. He doesn't use the real rules, but rather this bizarre schoolyard hybrid of ever changing rules.

Real Pokemon isn't half bad. But it has subtleties he isn't ready for.


Sounds like Calvinball.


Plays like it too.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paul DeStefano
United States
Long Island
New York
flag msg tools
designer
badge
It's a Zendrum. www.zendrum.com
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
WalkerRedEye wrote:
play necromunda and mordheim, they are both better (in my opinion) games and do not require a huge invetment in metal or plastic mins to have a viable gang


Actually, my favorite Warhammer variant is GorkaMorka, but you're going to scratch build most of the stuff at this time as it is long gone.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Wasp Factoryman
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I have played 40k all the way from the original Rougue Trader and up through it's many, many changes and to where it stands today. The original Space Marine models in green plastic and medieval (MK1) looking helmets still make up a portion of my army and continue their tireless fight.

I agree to a point that this is an expensive commitment/investment but over time. When I began collecting I had to choose my models shrewdly creating an army that could hold its own on the battlefield without lacerating my wallet. This was not a difficult task. I now have a tough little army that has served me well over the past 20 years or so. The models do not become redundant and can be used again and again and again. If you are an obssessive collector then, yes, this game will hurt you. For us though it was never about having a huge 5000 pt army it was more about enjoying the game with what we could afford.

If I compare the money I have spent on consoles/vid games with the money I have spent on 40K over the years I guess the consoles will of been the most expensive. I still play 40K. The old consoles are dead clutter.

We have money and we spend it. A lot of that money will simply vanish and leave nothing behind to remind you it was ever there. Money spent on 40K though is not wasted or blown. It buys you stuff that with a bit of luck you will still be throwing dice over for the next twenty years or more.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ken B.
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Geosphere wrote:
franklincobb wrote:
Quote:
"Its better than Pokemon"



Y'see, that's where your argument was flawed to begin with.



OK, its better than the way MY SON plays Pokemon. He doesn't use the real rules, but rather this bizarre schoolyard hybrid of ever changing rules.

Real Pokemon isn't half bad. But it has subtleties he isn't ready for.



The funniest times I can remember at the ol' CCG shop were all watching kids play Yu-Gi-Oh.

The rules made up on the spot for that game were...incredible.

It's hard to believe but Yu-Gi-Oh is far too complicated for its target audience.


Pokemon is surprisingly deeper than most would think, despite its audience, but does keep things simple enough where it's just at the cusp of its target audience's comprehension. I played the heck out of the Game Boy version; I wish they'd do an update. My son's got the Poke-fever and now I'm trying to track down some cards for us to play; I'll let you know if Calvinball-esque hijinks ensue.


As for WH40K...I had the urge to buy a bunch years ago after looking in their catalog. What stopped me is the inability to paint.


Looking back, I always say, "Thank GOD I can't paint. Thank GOD I *couldn't* paint."
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ken B.
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Jonathan Ward wrote:
The old consoles are dead clutter.



Says you!




I mean, I'm still liable to fire up Tetris Attack for the SNES, Marvel Vs. Capcom 2 or Fire Pro for the Dremcast, or Mario 64 for the N64 at a moment's notice.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dave J
United Kingdom
Plymouth
Devon
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: Psst. Hey, kid. C'mere. Try this. Its cheap. And Fu
Wow! Fantastic review Paul, nearly made me want to buy it myself...

I think the really interesting point here is that we are on the edge of the second generation of 40k players, with parents introducing it to their children. I'm just about to turn 30, my son is about to turn 10 and I remember my first look at the brand new 'Rogue Trader' book when it first appeared.

My parents didn't have a clue what I was doing spending all my money on miniatures, but we now do. There was no way that my dad would be able to find the time to learn the game, but I think we can now (as parents) make sure our kids get the best out of these games.

Of course, my son's going to be a Necromunda player, but that's another story...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dork Angel
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Jonathan Ward wrote:
I have played 40k all the way from the original Rougue Trader and up through it's many, many changes and to where it stands today. The original Space Marine models in green plastic and medieval (MK1) looking helmets still make up a portion of my army and continue their tireless fight.

I agree to a point that this is an expensive commitment/investment but over time. When I began collecting I had to choose my models shrewdly creating an army that could hold its own on the battlefield without lacerating my wallet. This was not a difficult task. I now have a tough little army that has served me well over the past 20 years or so. The models do not become redundant and can be used again and again and again. If you are an obssessive collector then, yes, this game will hurt you. For us though it was never about having a huge 5000 pt army it was more about enjoying the game with what we could afford.

If I compare the money I have spent on consoles/vid games with the money I have spent on 40K over the years I guess the consoles will of been the most expensive. I still play 40K. The old consoles are dead clutter.

We have money and we spend it. A lot of that money will simply vanish and leave nothing behind to remind you it was ever there. Money spent on 40K though is not wasted or blown. It buys you stuff that with a bit of luck you will still be throwing dice over for the next twenty years or more.


Ahh, I started with Rogue Trader too. Boxed set of 30 plastic Space Marines with the beetle-face helmets and a box of metal Space Orc raiders. It seemed so much better value back them and I still prefer the look of the old missile launchers.

Dark Angels and Orcs were my armies of choice. Our armies ended up including models nabbed from Space Crusade, Trannid Attack and Gorka Morka. As for painting, I still have half made tanks and troops in undercoat tucked somewhere in the house.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Will DeMorris
United States
El Paso
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
A great review and as you can tell by my avatar I'm a little biased towards the game. One point that I want to really stress (And one that a previos poster mentioned) is that the right group is all important when it comes to 40k. I've been lucky enough to find a like minded group of friends here that love getting together on Saturday afternoons to roll some dice, drink some beer and talk trash over games of 40k. I hope you and your son have as much fun as we've had painting, modeling and playing 40k.

-Will
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gregory Amstutz
United States
Chula Vista
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: Psst. Hey, kid. C'mere. Try this. Its cheap. And Fu
GAWD wrote:
Do yourselves a favor ... don't buy into GW games. You'll be happier in the long run.

sincerely,
recovering hard-core GW gamer of 8 yrs


It's gratifying to see that us Magic addicts ain't the only one with a problem.......
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robert Creasman
United States
Lexington
Kentucky
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: Psst. Hey, kid. C'mere. Try this. Its cheap. And Fu
Absolutely excellent review. I was wondering if it would be worth it to try out this game to get a "taste" of 40k. Sounds like it would definitely work for that. That being said, it sounds like any taste I take could lead to a cripplingly expensive habit
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jason Jullie
United States
Richardson
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: Psst. Hey, kid. C'mere. Try this. Its cheap. And Fu
Nice review.

As a GW game player of some 15 years, I've seen the costs for miniatures rise right alongside gas prices. When you look at the pricing on certain figures, the ammount of money you have to spend is staggering.

That said, I recently started a fresh 40k army and I got a fairly large force in a "reasonable" amount of money. I am a believer that the only "decent" deal GW has for miniatures is the battle forces that they have for each army. For $90 you get around 500 to 700 points worth of an army.

If each player has a battleforce, you can play some pretty fun (albeit limited) games. The only way to really make the price managable is to buy your army in stages. I basically kept myself from buying new units until I painted the ones that I already had. Over the course of a year, I had a rather large painted army that probably cost me $300-400 bucks. I had purchased two battleforces and a box of someone else's figures at a discount (look to eBay for your own deals).

In the end, I was able to add another large army to my collection for under $500. This is a touchstone amount. If $500 bucks for a minis game seems outrageous, then I would suggest that you steer clear of 40k. However, if you view $500 as an acceptable entry price for a fantastic looking and detailed minis universe, then you might want to take a closer look at 40k.

P.S. While 40k might not be the best "game" ever, it is a terrific hobby and each session is a wonderful experience (with the right opponent). To me, playing 40k is more about watching a battle unfold between me and a bud; rather than a competition to determine who the best general is at the table. Sitting down with a beer after the battle and recounting how my Space Wolf terminators poured out of my Land Raider Crusader into a hail of Space Ork bullets to rescue our fallen comrade, is a lot of fun (to me anyway).
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paul DeStefano
United States
Long Island
New York
flag msg tools
designer
badge
It's a Zendrum. www.zendrum.com
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
haoyong wrote:
Absolutely excellent review. I was wondering if it would be worth it to try out this game to get a "taste" of 40k. Sounds like it would definitely work for that. That being said, it sounds like any taste I take could lead to a cripplingly expensive habit


If you are looking to taste 40K, there has absolutely never been a better way to do it. This is it. Maybe you won't even like it.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
D Clevenger
United States
Texas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: Psst. Hey, kid. C'mere. Try this. Its cheap. And Fu
stormseeker75 wrote:
There's no doubt, its a great game.


With all due respect and acknowledging that one man's trash is another man's treasure and all that, I would like to make the point to the gaming community at large that WH40K is not a great "game" (IMHO). It is a fantastic HOBBY but really a pretty lousy game.

I played 40K for years. I owned, painted and played just about every army they ever made. I played under 2nd Ed rules, 3rd Ed rules and even these new (4th ed?) rules. 2d Ed rules were probably the best but did not allow very big armies to take the field. 3rd Ed rules were much more streamlined, allowing bigger armies to take the field and the game not last several hours. Buying, painting, tweaking, converting (oh the hours I spent bending little pieces of metal), it was all so good.

However, setting down to actually play with your little painted warriors was always (for me at least) at best irritating and annoying and at worst a colossal waste of time. There are very little true tactics to employ. For the most part its just a rush to melee and lots of dice. I never looked forward to the next game. I would eventually get back to painting and converting and buying and then feel the need to get these little pieces of heaven onto the battlefield - only to be left feeling very empty about the experience.

But all in all, if you like designing armies, painting armies, and spending loads of cash on armies (as I admittedly did), then this is a really good hobby. I agree that you won't spend more on this than board games if you're like me and place a free shipping order from B&B every other month. I will admit a slight bad taste in my mouth. I played for years at prices that were silly but not ridiculous. You could always find minis for 20-30% off retail on line. But right after 3rd ed came out, GW created the perfect storm. They raised the entire line by 20% and they forbid online stores from selling at a discount. So all told a 40% increase in costs. That's just silly.

I still read the books - some of them are truly great works of Sci-Fi and Fantasy. The 40K universe is deeper, richer and much much darker than any other universe (I would say it even rivals the Star Wars universe in depth). But a great "game"? Not so much.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
D Clevenger
United States
Texas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: Psst. Hey, kid. C'mere. Try this. Its cheap. And Fu
Rliyen wrote:
Geosphere wrote:
franklincobb wrote:
Quote:
"Its better than Pokemon"



Y'see, that's where your argument was flawed to begin with.



OK, its better than the way MY SON plays Pokemon. He doesn't use the real rules, but rather this bizarre schoolyard hybrid of ever changing rules.

Real Pokemon isn't half bad. But it has subtleties he isn't ready for.


Sounds like Calvinball.


We should all play Epic 40K. At about half the cost and 4x the minis it really is/was a great game.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.