Jason Emme
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Hi all, I just recently read about Shadows of Brimstone and it looks like a game that I would really enjoy. It's been at the top of my wish list for some time now. However, every time I order board games, SoB sadly gets passed by for an expansion that I really want or for the newest hyped hotness.

I think another reason that I have skipped this purchase is that I read somewhere, some time back that people just getting into this game series should hold out for the newest and better version. I don't remember what it was called or when it was even supposed to come out (thinking some time in 2017).

I guess I'm just looking for any advice I can get on this topic. I really like the look of this game. Plus it comes with minis that I could paint (plus expansion minis that can be bought) and it has a very cool western theme that I would really enjoy. Not to mention, I love the idea of completely co-op.

So what's the deal here? Do I wait for the sequel/second edition? Does this even exist? If it exists, when does it come out and what are the differences? If someone can talk me into buying into this version of SoB, what should I buy to start?

Thanks for your input
 
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I never heard of another edition of this game.
However, there is a new stand alone version of it which takes place in feudal Japan and called Forbidden Fortress.
I believe this is the one you heard some rumors about.

It's probably the same game engine but the theme is completely different (but compatible with the current version of the game).

I doubt there will be any new edition of the Far West themed game in the near future as there are still plenty of expansions planned and not for sale yet and people who kickstarted the game are still waiting for the content as we speak.
That would be a terrible moment to say that the game is "outdated" and needs a newer version while it hasn't even reached everyone's home.

So, I think your choice is to either go with the Far west themed game as it is right now or wait for the feudal Japan themed game that will come on a relatively short term.
If you are waiting for a revised version of the original game, you might wait for nothing.

Maybe I'm wrong but it's unlikely.
 
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The the next set is coming out in early 2018 and is called Shadows of Brimstone: Forbidden Fortress.

It's not a newer, as such, or better set (exactly the same rules, with maybe a few clarifications) it is the same game but in a different setting (feudal/fantasy Japan). It is considered more of a stand-alone game, but completely compatible with the existing western themed Shadow of Brimstone game.

There is no reason to wait for the new set, unless you prefer the setting over the current one, or you could purchase both and mix them all together.

edit - Beat me to it, to slow with the typing,
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Buy SOB now. The newer game (Forbidden Fortress, or FOFO), as mentioned, is essentially the same game but reskinned to Feudal Japan. The good point about buying CotA now is you can see if you like the game, then, if you like it and decide to get FOFO, then are completely compatible.

There is also PLENTY currently available now, plus a lot more coming up, so you definitely won't be bored.

Oh, also should mention, the other core game currently available, Swamps of Death, is also completely compatible.

Lastly, check out the Flying Frogs site for even more content that's not available at Miniature Market or CSI, such as expansion decks, alt gender minis, and resin bosses (Serpentmen Shaman, Scafford Gang Lt, and Void Magus).
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Re: Should I buy City of the Ancients now, or wait for the next Shadows of Brimstone game?
Definitely no reason to wait. If you like the game, you will want two to three core sets eventually to increase variety and options. So why wait to buy your first one? If you want the Forbidden Fortress one later, get that too.
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Re: Should I buy City of the Ancients now, or wait for the next Shadows of Brimstone game?
Thanks for the responses. It seems that the information that I read previously about this game was incorrect. I believe what I read was about Forbidden Fortress. Although, I was under the assumption that it was a new edition of this game.

After reading through these responses, I took a little more time to read about Shadows of Brimstone. What is the difference between City of Angels and Swamps of Death? Which is the base game and which is the expansion? Or are they both stand alone game that can be mixed together?

For those owning both, which should I buy first?
 
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Dormammu wrote:
Definitely no reason to wait. If you like the game, you will want two to three core sets eventually to increase variety and options. So why wait to buy your first one? If you want the Forbidden Fortress one later, get that too.


Two to three core sets? I hope that isn't necessary to enjoy the base game. If I buy from CSI, it would cost $206.97:
http://www.coolstuffinc.com/p/205264


I'm not willing to invest that kind of money for three base sets. Why do you need more than one base set for this game?
 
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DakotaDevil wrote:
Thanks for the responses. It seems that the information that I read previously about this game was incorrect. I believe what I read was about Forbidden Fortress. Although, I was under the assumption that it was a new edition of this game.

After reading through these responses, I took a little more time to read about Shadows of Brimstone. What is the difference between City of Angels and Swamps of Death? Which is the base game and which is the expansion? Or are they both stand alone game that can be mixed together?

For those owning both, which should I buy first?


CotA, SoD, and FOFO are all core sets, and yet also compatible. You can play and enjoy each individually, or merge them together. Frontier Town is a unique expansion, replacing the current town (in each core) with a much enhanced version, with stores, characters, and events.

Basically you explore in a mine, but can then get gated to another world. This is where the Targa Plateau (CotA) or the Swamps parts come in, as you gate to that world to finish the quest. There are more worlds available, such as Trederra (WWI style alien war) or Caverns of Cinder (Flame World/hell), and more coming.

I started with Swamps of Death, as I liked the Serpentmen, Slugs, and Raptor expansions which fit that theme. For CotA, look for the Custodians of Targa, Guardian of Targa, and Trun Hunters expansions. (Note: After receiving SoD, I quickly went on to get many more monster packs, as they add so much variety)

(A thought. FFP has 2 holiday bundles available, look thru them to see what their theme is, and what expansions 'match' best). But any monster pack can be used with any core set.

SoB is a game that you can easily spend a ton on, if you get everything. Yet you can also play just one core set by itself, though I think extended reply might get stale after a while. That's the benefit of buying both core sets now, they increase the playability exponentially.
 
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DakotaDevil wrote:
Dormammu wrote:
Definitely no reason to wait. If you like the game, you will want two to three core sets eventually to increase variety and options. So why wait to buy your first one? If you want the Forbidden Fortress one later, get that too.


Two to three core sets? I hope that isn't necessary to enjoy the base game. If I buy from CSI, it would cost $206.97:
http://www.coolstuffinc.com/p/205264


I'm not willing to invest that kind of money for three base sets. Why do you need more than one base set for this game?


You don't 'need' them, but as they are compatible, you can merge them into one game, making the monsters, gear, artifacts, etc more varied. Then, when you gate to another world from the mines, you will have two worlds possible, the Swamps or the Targa Plateau.
 
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I'd just get a single base set and see how much you like it. I prefer the enemies in Swamps of Death, but many people recommend City.
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I think swamps are a bit more interesting because you have the zombie generator. But really it doesn't matter because if you like the game you are going to quickly buy the other base set.
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There is no difference. And don't buy more than one core set. I went all out and bought almost everything, and played the game a few times. Cool concept, but gets repetitive. Make sure you really like it before you buy extra core sets and expansions etc.
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I can't let Jason's post be the last word on this thread, when its clearly the widely outside of consensus opinion.

I would argue and most here will agree that not only is SoB an amazing marriage of dungeoncrawl and DM-less RPG, but that it is also a game which constantly improves the more you can add to it.

He complains about diversity/repetition, but introducing TONS more loot, enounters, enemy types, map-tiles, etc... is exactly why additional core sets add huge value. Beyond them, the more you own, the more satisfying and diverse the game. More enemies mean more unique combinations of enemies at times, and thus entire new strategic situations.

Hell, I find even the FFP-direct card supplements add huge value when bought on sale.
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Newtruthneomaxim wrote:
I can't let Jason's post be the last word on this thread, when its clearly the widely outside of consensus opinion.


I agree with Jason's assessment. I have both care sets and combat is an utterly repetitive dice fest with very little in the way of "strategic situations". The monsters all behave the same way, with slight stat line variations.

I expect someone will say that the new monsters are much more interesting, but I haven't seen any of this first hand - still waiting for my stuff... Yadda, yadda, more delays, yadda, yadda.

My suggestion is to follow Jason's advice, or better yet find someone with the core set and try it first. Then also try/look into Super Dungeon Explore, Arcadia Quest, Gloomhaven, Kingdom Dearh and other similar gsmes. I'd unfortunately have a hard time arguing for SoB being the best option.
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If your complaints are repetition and dull enemy/combat situations... naming Super Dungeon Explore is disingenuous. Its arcade mode (IE the only co-op mode) is infinitely simpler and less substantive than SoB. Heck, Arcadia Quest is a different genre altogether, so I have to question why you would even raise those options?

Also, you anticipate people saying newer monsters make SoB a better game, because its a factual statement. Every single one offers a unique approach, some favoring crits, others requiring staying at range, others still must be run down. In all the combinations things can appear in, endless situations emerge.

Essentially, you're suggesting the game is limited, because you yourself don't have many of its options... then suggest games like Gloomhaven which don't actually exist yet.
 
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Newtruthneomaxim wrote:
... Super Dungeon Explore ... Arcadia Quest ... Gloomhaven ...


I don't actually know much about any of the games I mentioned. I just know they're often considered in the same category as SoB, and if someone is interested in SoB those are viable, well liked alternatives. Of course they don't hit the exact same check boxes as SoB, but who am I to know which parts of SoB someone is interested in.

And regarding Gloomhaven not existing yet... the OP is asking if he should wait for FoFo, I'm sure he'd consider waiting for Gloomhaven?


Newtruthneomaxim wrote:
Also, you anticipate people saying newer monsters make SoB a better game, because its a factual statement. Every single one offers a unique approach, some favoring crits, others requiring staying at range, others still must be run down. In all the combinations things can appear in, endless situations emerge.

Essentially, you're suggesting the game is limited, because you yourself don't have many of its options...


Yes, I'm saying what I've seen of the game is limited and repetitive.

Releasing 2 core sets of the same game with the same repetitive, boring combat in both of them is a problem with the game - not me. If the game only gets good if you spend double the cost of a core set on expansions, maybe you should spend your money on a game that has fun and engaging game play right out of the box. If I hadn't backed the first KS there is absolutely no way I'd spend any money on expansions considering the boring, dice-rolling slug-fest the combat turned out to be.




Actually, I'll change my recommendations for the OP to the following:

If the Japanese theme interests you, I would definitely wait for Forbidden Fortress to be available and for some reviews to come out. I'd hope that the new expansions for SoB do actually offer more interesting and varied combat, and that the same variety and difference between enemies will find itself in Forbidden Fortress.

I cannot recommend picking up the City of Ancients or Swamps of Death core sets without any expansions, the combat is just too lackluster.
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KevBelisle wrote:
Newtruthneomaxim wrote:
... Super Dungeon Explore ... Arcadia Quest ... Gloomhaven ...


I don't actually know much about any of the games I mentioned. I just know they're often considered in the same category as SoB, and if someone is interested in SoB those are viable, well liked alternatives. Of course they don't hit the exact same check boxes as SoB, but who am I to know which parts of SoB someone is interested in.

And regarding Gloomhaven not existing yet... the OP is asking if he should wait for FoFo, I'm sure he'd consider waiting for Gloomhaven?


Newtruthneomaxim wrote:
Also, you anticipate people saying newer monsters make SoB a better game, because its a factual statement. Every single one offers a unique approach, some favoring crits, others requiring staying at range, others still must be run down. In all the combinations things can appear in, endless situations emerge.

Essentially, you're suggesting the game is limited, because you yourself don't have many of its options...


Yes, I'm saying what I've seen of the game is limited and repetitive.

Releasing 2 core sets of the same game with the same repetitive, boring combat in both of them is a problem with the game - not me. If the game only gets good if you spend double the cost of a core set on expansions, maybe you should spend your money on a game that has fun and engaging game play right out of the box. If I hadn't backed the first KS there is absolutely no way I'd spend any money on expansions considering the boring, dice-rolling slug-fest the combat turned out to be.




Actually, I'll change my recommendations for the OP to the following:

If the Japanese theme interests you, I would definitely wait for Forbidden Fortress to be available and for some reviews to come out. I'd hope that the new expansions for SoB do actually offer more interesting and varied combat, and that the same variety and difference between enemies will find itself in Forbidden Fortress.

I cannot recommend picking up the City of Ancients or Swamps of Death core sets without any expansions, the combat is just too lackluster.


Okay, clearly you dislike the SoB combat system. Could you perhaps name a dungeon-crawl game which you think has a good combat system and explain why you believe it to be good?

To the OP, I will says that I disagree with this poster and think SoB's combat system is just fine.
 
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I tried the prologue fight of KD:M and the combat was interesting. And from what I've read each monster acts *very* differently, far from being variations of a stat line. And I think there are about as many different types of monsters in the KD:M box as a SoB core set.

From what I've seen of Gloomhaven the card driven combat system looks to be more interesting than SoB's roll to hit, for defense, for armor, for damage, and repeat - but watch out, the nezt monster will have a different health total, to hit value and armor rating.
 
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KevBelisle wrote:
I tried the prologue fight of KD:M and the combat was interesting. And from what I've read each monster acts *very* differently, far from being variations of a stat line. And I think there are about as many different types of monsters in the KD:M box as a SoB core set.


Kingdom Death 1.3 has 7 Monsters of which you will in a campaign fight 3 of them (Butcher, Kingsman and Hand) around 2-3 times each (minimum once each), one of them at most once (Watcher) and the rest of the 25 or so fights will be from the other 3 with at least 2 being the White Lion.

Kingdom Death 1.5 i.e. the current kickstarter adds an additional monster and at least 5 fights to a campaign.
 
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One thing I will say about KD:M and variety is once you have two specific bits of gear - the rawhide headband and cat's-eye circlet (both of which aren't that hard to get), you can find the game becomes a lot more predictable as you can know and control what the AI will do or know and control where you'll hit (and that's especially huge seeing as you can possibly bury the trap card permanently) at the cost of one survivor just standing around a lot of the time.

I'd endorse Klutz's suggestion about waiting for Forbidden Fortress. From a narrative perspective there's essential elements like a named antagonist (the Fallen Shogun) and an army to back the antagonist up (the Takobake clan). The hero classes from what little we've seen seem more interesting, for example we know the Samurai class has a renewable resource which s/he can spend on certain skills so there's a dimension of resource management for at least one character. The design of the tiles introduces a barrier rule, meaning that the sides of certain spaces on a tile can't be crossed with a special rule or ability, making it possible to control the tile more effectively and encourage more mobility in a battle (for example, it would be better to have a running battle up a smaller set of stairs than standing at a doorway). So yeah, I'd say wait for FoFo.
 
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Maximillian_Caine wrote:
The hero classes from what little we've seen seem more interesting, for example we know the Samurai class has a renewable resource which s/he can spend on certain skills so there's a dimension of resource management for at least one character.


Like the Gunslinger (6 special bullets per adventure) and Priest (Limited amount of Faith to cast spells per turn) in City of the Ancients and Swamps of Jargono?

IIRC the Gambler (Luck), Wandering Samurai(Fury but different skills from the FF Samurai) and Darkstone Shamen all have similar, though the Shamen may be spending Darkstone and Grit to do his stuff. Also probably the Sorceress in Forbidden Fortress and possibly the Kitsune.

The three obviously new things in Fortress of Fear are the Sumo (First Large hero and so can presumably move normal sized figures), Damiyo (First hero built round having minions) and the Kitsune (First non-human hero) or Tredarran Renegade (Second Non-human hero)

Of those all except the Kitsune are Exclusives and the Kitsune is in the Temple Expansion rather than the base set.
 
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DakotaDevil wrote:
Plus it comes with minis that I could paint (plus expansion minis that can be bought) and it has a very cool western theme that I would really enjoy.


If mini's are important to you, wait for Forbidden Fortress. FFP's SoB miniatures manufacturer told them they had experience in manufacturing HIPS (?) and they did not. The result are the worst miniatures I've had the displeasure to assemble. I know they're acceptable to some boardgamers, but, as a miniatures painter, I don't want to spend hours assembling, filing off the mold lines, painting, and basing miniatures with low detail. I highly recommend you look at these miniatures if you intend to paint these miniatures. I was fortunate enough to trade two games I never played for the two base games, so didn't spend additional money for it. (I don't think I'd mind trading the base games to anyone in the SF Bay Area for the FF Sumo pledge level when it arrives, or the FF and first expansion.)
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Sam and Max wrote:
DakotaDevil wrote:
Plus it comes with minis that I could paint (plus expansion minis that can be bought) and it has a very cool western theme that I would really enjoy.


If mini's are important to you, wait for Forbidden Fortress. FFP's SoB miniatures manufacturer told them they had experience in manufacturing HIPS (?) and they did not. The result are the worst miniatures I've had the displeasure to assemble. I know they're acceptable to some boardgamers, but, as a miniatures painter, I don't want to spend hours assembling, filing off the mold lines, painting, and basing miniatures with low detail. I highly recommend you look at these miniatures if you intend to paint these miniatures. I was fortunate enough to trade two games I never played for the two base games, so didn't spend additional money for it. (I don't think I'd mind trading the base games to anyone in the SF Bay Area for the FF Sumo pledge level when it arrives, or the FF and first expansion.)


This is most disappointing to hear. I wouldn't buy the game just because of the minis, but it would be a good selling point. After looking around on these forums and on Reddit, it seems that the minis being subpar is the general consensus.

Another red flag after reading about this game is that the combat seems to be very underwhelming as well.

It's unfortunate because when I heard that there was an adventure game with an old western theme and monsters, I became very excited. Looks like I need to do a bit more research before I commit to SoB:CotA.
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