fightcitymayor
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We have officially stepped through the looking glass: A Republican member of the House Armed Services Committee (let that sink in a bit) has officially thrown in with "the evil empire."

Can you imagine if the roles were reversed? A Democrat winning a skin-of-your-teeth election margin, then evidence uncovered that the Russian government helped get them there? Holy shit, there would be a FOX NEWS SPECIAL REPORT every night for the next 9 months.

Quote:
A longtime Republican congressman says that Russia’s leak of hacked emails from the Democratic National Committee and Hillary Clinton’s campaign during the U.S. presidential election was a public service.

“If Russia succeeded in giving the American people information that was accurate,” Arizona Rep. Trent Franks said Thursday afternoon on MSNBC, “then they merely did what the media should have done.”







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fightcitymayor
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And here we are: Russian meddling in American elections is A-OK as long as they are doing it to "the other side" because then it's just factual and swell, and we should actually be blaming the NYTimes or something. Suddenly ethics become very relative, and foreign enemy government hacking is apparently not always a bad thing. God bless the blinded-by-partisanship American voter.

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fightcitymayor
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galad2003 wrote:
You also blunder in keep thinking the emails were what tipped the election. Your side refuses to admit your candidate sucked.
Dear dimwit,
Not everyone who thinks Trump is a crooked, sleazy asshole voted for Hillary.
Wake up.

-yrs truly,
the majority of Americans

Spoiler (click to reveal)
Trump votes = 62,979,879
Not-Trump votes = 72,719,798
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bjlillo wrote:
"Russians" interfere with election by showing Americans that Democrats interfered with the election. Can't say I'm terribly upset.

Of course, the guy who actually released the information says that he got it from an inside guy, not the Russians, but let's go ahead and push that Big Red Scare narrative so the Dems can continue to pretend that's why they lost.


Wow. The Russians interfere in our presidential election and the right wing response here is "Thank you sir may I have another". Did not realize just how many of them just don't give a shit about the country as long as their man wins
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fightcitymayor wrote:
....Can you imagine if the roles were reversed? A Democrat winning a skin-of-your-teeth election margin, then evidence uncovered that the Russian government helped get them there? Holy shit, there would be a FOX NEWS SPECIAL REPORT every night for the next 9 months....


Actually, if the "roles were reversed" it would be completely ignored by the MSM and dismissed as "fake news". However, I am curious, what exactly is this "evidence uncovered" you refer to? Is it the same "evidence" that Stein et al had that the voting had been "hacked" (with a "floppy disk" no less!) in Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania?
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galad2003 wrote:
Russia blows up a civilian airliner over the Ukraine - no response. Russia allegedly hacks the DNC emails and suddenly we care.
Didn't you leave an allegedly out of there? Or do you think that every time someone is shot by an AK-47 that is a Russian attack?
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bjlillo wrote:
Of course, the guy who actually released the information says that he got it from an inside guy, not the Russians, but let's go ahead and push that Big Red Scare narrative so the Dems can continue to pretend that's why they lost.
Right, and to take the other side of galad's argument. The Russians also denied having any Russian troops incognito amongst pro-Russian separatists in th Ukraine. People do have the tendency to blame others when trying to create their deniability narrative.
 
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Drew1365 wrote:


laughlaughlaugh

Now that's funny!! Good find!!!

I do, however, agree that while the media did its usual shitty job of covering the presidential election (yeah, they sucked when it came to Clinton's baggage, but on the other hand, they gave Trump a virtual free pass up until the GOP convention, and then had really nothing to counter him with), I am still amazed by ANYONE who isn't outraged by what the Russian Republic did during the election and before. For God's sake, the world's second-leading nuclear power which is under control of a ex-KGB agent turned dictator is hacking our Internet services. Sure, this time it was a bunch of e-mails from the DNC that made the Democrats look stupid, but what if next time they hit the Defense Department? The national power grid?

Stunning, the lack of patriotism among those dismissive of the Russian bear.

And by the way, the US and its European allies did react strongly when the Russians shot down that airliner. More sanctions, more exclusion. Unless you think war is the only way to react to such things, and believe diplomacy is the for the weak.
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Gosh, never thought I'd cite a Rolling Stone article but here they are calling the Russian hacking excuse thin gruel -

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/something-abou...
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galad2003 wrote:
China and Russia have been hacking us for years and now suddenly people care?
I'm pretty sure people have cared and have hoped our Government is doing something about it. What is new, and the subject of all this hair-pulling, is our government representatives actually celebrating that hacking and the rep's apologists defending that celebration.

There are other ways to criticize the media without having to lower yourself to siding with one of our main rivals on the international stage and undermining our own interests.
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Knewt wrote:
Gosh, never thought I'd cite a Rolling Stone article but here they are calling the Russian hacking excuse thin gruel
There is a reason why you thought you'd never cite one of their articles, they are one of those "media" sources that have been caught in fabrications, exaggerations and straight up lies.

Heck, they didn't release the emails either, so according to the GOP, they are worse than the Russians.
 
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Drew1365 wrote:
I don't see how he's wrong. If the media was doing their jobs as watchdogs instead of lapdogs, instead of being "Democrat Party operatives with bylines," then we wouldn't have needed leaks, hacks, or whistleblowers to get honest information.

You focus on the "Russians" part of the comment. You should be focusing on the media criticism.


I'm not sure how illegally hacked emails selectively released, possibly edited and altered, and timed to cause maximum damage qualifies as "honest" information.

It does tell me a bit about what you think of as "honest" though.
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bjlillo wrote:
"Russians" interfere with election by showing Americans that Democrats interfered with the election. Can't say I'm terribly upset.


The Democrats didn't "interfere" with the election. The worst you can accuse them of is being biased in favor of an established candidate who was a lifelong member of the democratic party over a johnny come lately I'll run as a democrat because it's my only chance candidate. And that wasn't the election. It was their own primary. Political parties have no obligation to pay any attention whatsoever to a vote beyond what they impose on themselves. They can choose their candidates however they please.

So, you're completely full of shit.
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Les Marshall
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Drew1365 wrote:
I don't see how he's wrong. If the media was doing their jobs as watchdogs instead of lapdogs, instead of being "Democrat Party operatives with bylines," then we wouldn't have needed leaks, hacks, or whistleblowers to get honest information.

You focus on the "Russians" part of the comment. You should be focusing on the media criticism.


Sure and the only thing Nixon did wrong was getting caught. Jeez, it used to be the GOP was the party of law and order. Now it seems to be all about the ends justify the means.

Well, at least McCain and Graham seem to have a spine....and some patriotism in their hearts. The party isn't dead just yet.
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bjlillo wrote:
"Russians" interfere with election by showing Americans that Democrats interfered with the election. Can't say I'm terribly upset.

Of course, the guy who actually released the information says that he got it from an inside guy, not the Russians, but let's go ahead and push that Big Red Scare narrative so the Dems can continue to pretend that's why they lost.


A fer cryin out loud! Come on BJ! Regardless of who won, it doesn't aggravate you that Russia hacked the top offices of the DNC AND the RNC? Recent evidence now suggests the same codes were used to hack the power grid in Vermont.

Is your antipathy towards HRC and the DNC so strong that you are beyond caring about the compromise of our infrastructure by a foreign power?
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Drew1365 wrote:
I don't see how he's wrong. If the media was doing their jobs as watchdogs instead of lapdogs, instead of being "Democrat Party operatives with bylines," then we wouldn't have needed leaks, hacks, or whistleblowers to get honest information.

You focus on the "Russians" part of the comment. You should be focusing on the media criticism.

So the Media should be criminal in behaviour? Just laying down the baselines for Trump.
 
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galad2003 wrote:
bjlillo wrote:
"Russians" interfere with election by showing Americans that Democrats interfered with the election. Can't say I'm terribly upset.

Of course, the guy who actually released the information says that he got it from an inside guy, not the Russians, but let's go ahead and push that Big Red Scare narrative so the Dems can continue to pretend that's why they lost.


Well the guy who leaked it probably ended up dead in DC with a bullet in his back so the Dems need to throw everyone off of that trail.

And 911 was done by the US government and the earth is flat.
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David Dearlove
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Drew1365 wrote:
DavidDearlove wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
I don't see how he's wrong. If the media was doing their jobs as watchdogs instead of lapdogs, instead of being "Democrat Party operatives with bylines," then we wouldn't have needed leaks, hacks, or whistleblowers to get honest information.

You focus on the "Russians" part of the comment. You should be focusing on the media criticism.

So the Media should be criminal in behaviour? Just laying down the baselines for Trump.


Straw man fallacy.

I really don't think you know what that means. You approve of criminally obtaining emails and publishing them. I assume that your justification is that this action revealed hypocrisy by Democratic Party officials that in your opinion make the Democratic party unfit to be elected. Where is the straw man?
I merely point out that from late January there will be open season on Trump using exactly the same argument.
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Its one thing to get leaks from disaffected staffers who give you copies of documents and emails. The onus of any illegality is upon the person making the leak, and they're doing it because they feel that the public has a right to know. But we can hold those people accountable for leaking.

Its quite another thing for a foreign government to illegally hack into a server for emails and data, and then give those documents to the press.

If the problem were the leaks, we'd be bitching about Assange and Wikileaks- but no one is blaming Assange for just passing on the documents that he was given by the Russians.

No, the problem is that a foreign government has decided that it has the right to violate the personal property of American Citizens, steal their confidential communications and then make them public. The fact that they did this to manipulate an election is just the cherry on the top.

If Russia was ok to do this, then North Korea was justified in hacking Sony Corp and making Sony's emails public. Its the same precedent. I can't believe that just because the emails helped Trump that GOP wannabee Trumpitista's feel that somehow this is all justified. Its beyond hypocrisy at this point.

Darilian
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Drew1365 wrote:
DavidDearlove wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
DavidDearlove wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
I don't see how he's wrong. If the media was doing their jobs as watchdogs instead of lapdogs, instead of being "Democrat Party operatives with bylines," then we wouldn't have needed leaks, hacks, or whistleblowers to get honest information.

You focus on the "Russians" part of the comment. You should be focusing on the media criticism.

So the Media should be criminal in behaviour? Just laying down the baselines for Trump.


Straw man fallacy.

I really don't think you know what that means.


Sure I do. You created this straw man belief and attributed it to me, but I didn't make that assertion at all.

It's dishonest.

Do Americans not know what a question mark is? I asked you if you held a certain view and you still have not answered the question.
Now if I said that Drew's position is that lawbreaking is acceptable if it helps Republicans and not if it helps Democrats then that would be a straw man.
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DavidDearlove wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
DavidDearlove wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
DavidDearlove wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
I don't see how he's wrong. If the media was doing their jobs as watchdogs instead of lapdogs, instead of being "Democrat Party operatives with bylines," then we wouldn't have needed leaks, hacks, or whistleblowers to get honest information.

You focus on the "Russians" part of the comment. You should be focusing on the media criticism.

So the Media should be criminal in behaviour? Just laying down the baselines for Trump.


Straw man fallacy.

I really don't think you know what that means.


Sure I do. You created this straw man belief and attributed it to me, but I didn't make that assertion at all.

It's dishonest.

Do Americans not know what a question mark is? I asked you if you held a certain view and you still have not answered the question.
Now if I said that Drew's position is that lawbreaking is acceptable if it helps Republicans and not if it helps Democrats then that would be a straw man.


However, from the textual post evidence, it would be an easy conclusion to reach.
 
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Rulesjd wrote:
bjlillo wrote:
"Russians" interfere with election by showing Americans that Democrats interfered with the election. Can't say I'm terribly upset.

Of course, the guy who actually released the information says that he got it from an inside guy, not the Russians, but let's go ahead and push that Big Red Scare narrative so the Dems can continue to pretend that's why they lost.


A fer cryin out loud! Come on BJ! Regardless of who won, it doesn't aggravate you that Russia hacked the top offices of the DNC AND the RNC? Recent evidence now suggests the same codes were used to hack the power grid in Vermont.

Is your antipathy towards HRC and the DNC so strong that you are beyond caring about the compromise of our infrastructure by a foreign power?


The funniest part is how pissed off conservatives would be if China hacked RNC emails, made them public (or transparent as Drew implies... good one), and watched the media cover it for a month just before the election.

Yes, today's conservative is really only concerned about the ends justifying the means. They wouldn't care what Russia does as long as their man benefits from it. True patriots, the lot of them.
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Drew1365 wrote:
DavidDearlove wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
DavidDearlove wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
DavidDearlove wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
I don't see how he's wrong. If the media was doing their jobs as watchdogs instead of lapdogs, instead of being "Democrat Party operatives with bylines," then we wouldn't have needed leaks, hacks, or whistleblowers to get honest information.

You focus on the "Russians" part of the comment. You should be focusing on the media criticism.

So the Media should be criminal in behaviour? Just laying down the baselines for Trump.


Straw man fallacy.

I really don't think you know what that means.


Sure I do. You created this straw man belief and attributed it to me, but I didn't make that assertion at all.

It's dishonest.

Do Americans not know what a question mark is?


Do Brits not know the aphorism when you find yourself in a hole, stop digging?



As usual, you still haven't answered the question.
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Actually that would be more appropriate if they were caught by someone who just wondered in to your house and decided to poke around
 
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utoption2 wrote:
DavidDearlove wrote:
galad2003 wrote:
bjlillo wrote:
"Russians" interfere with election by showing Americans that Democrats interfered with the election. Can't say I'm terribly upset.

Of course, the guy who actually released the information says that he got it from an inside guy, not the Russians, but let's go ahead and push that Big Red Scare narrative so the Dems can continue to pretend that's why they lost.


Well the guy who leaked it probably ended up dead in DC with a bullet in his back so the Dems need to throw everyone off of that trail.

And 911 was done by the US government and the earth is flat.


One of two things just might be, at least somewhat, true.



Nope, not in the slightest
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