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Subject: Correct Rules vs Steam rss

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El Fiji Grande
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This is a fairly general question, and if I posted it in the incorrect forum subsection, then I apologize in advance. I've played many complete games of Twilight Struggle in real life (IRL), but occasionally I do find that I've gotten the rules wrong, and we have to change our play accordingly. Now that I have the Steam version of Twilight Struggle, there are a few rules changes that seem to have been made clear. My question is - are the Steam rules of the game all correct and trustworthy, or did the developers make clumsy or lazy errors that should not effect the way I play IRL? If so, has a list of these errors been compiled somewhere?

I don't have many specific examples, but I have noticed that my interpretation of Bear Trap/Quagmire, Cuban Missile Crisis, and We Will Bury You differ from the rules I've seen on Steam.

Thanks.
 
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Ben Kyo
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Playdek only announced one actual change to the rules, namely that VP draws don't exist in the Steam version and VP draws are counted as a win for the US.

EDIT: They added another rule change. Wargames for the event will lose you the game if the event brings VPs to zero.

Everything else works as it should, unless there is a bug. Unfortunately there are quite a few bugs. I made a list on the Playdek forums, which I have copied below:

Quote:
Bugs:
Iron Lady allows USSR to avoid the normal influence adjacency rules.
Vietnam Revolts + Red Purge with a 1 OP card in Southeast Asia gives 2 OPs instead of 1.
Interface forces you to use all realignment rolls, even if you don't want to.
SALT forces card draw, even if you don't want it (e.g. after a reshuffle play of Missile Envy).
UN Intervention for OPs is possible on a Grain Sales headline.
Cuban Missile Crisis influence removal is not possible in all the situations when it should be (e.g., after an opponent play of Lone Gunman/CIA).
Slowdown bugs with Cuban Missile Crisis.
Scoring Card play during Quagmire/Bear Trap is possible, but not clearly flagged as such.
Discard pile disappears under some circumstances (exiting and re-entering game is a workaround).
The VP tie rule changes are not taught by the documentation or indicated anywhere in the game until the point at which you win/lose, by which time it's too late.
Aldrich Ames Remix doesn't expose the US hand during the whole remainder of the turn (significant when "Ask Not..." gets played).
Latin America Debt Crisis for the event gets removed instead of going to the discard.
Apparently it's impossible to remove a user from your friend list if they have never played TS online.
Grain sales event > Missile envy event > US card play >> USSR unable to play Missile envy for OPs, impossible to advance game state.
UN Intervention after U2 awards 1 VP prior to choosing a card to play with UN Intervention. If your VPs are at 19, and you have no card in hand to use with UN Intervention, you should not be able to play UN Intervention for an automatic victory, but currently you can.
Turn zero effects aren't working. Reports seem to indicate that a large amount of Turn Zero content is borked.
Rule changes:
VP tie is a win for US (with an exception for Wargames, below).
A Wargames VP tie is a loss for the player who played the event.
Other problems
There's no easy in-game way to figure out what cards your opponent might be holding, and no way to make notes. I run a separate program for card-tracking.
Apparently it occasionally looks to both players as if it is still the opponents turn (and timer) ticking down. I haven't experienced this.
Part of the chat window is obscured (by the pointless camera buttons).
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Michael Kiefte
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Benkyo wrote:
Playdek only announced one actual change to the rules, namely that VP draws don't exist in the Steam version and VP draws are counted as a win for the US.

That being said, their online documentation clearly says that 0 VPs is counted as a draw, so it should still be considered a bug.

I leave the philosophical question open of whether something intentional can be considered a bug.
 
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Ben Kyo
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mkiefte wrote:
Benkyo wrote:
Playdek only announced one actual change to the rules, namely that VP draws don't exist in the Steam version and VP draws are counted as a win for the US.

That being said, their online documentation clearly says that 0 VPs is counted as a draw, so it should still be considered a bug.

I leave the philosophical question open of whether something intentional can be considered a bug.
Benkyo wrote:

Bug:
The VP tie rule change is not documented, indicated, or taught anywhere in the game or documentation.
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Jamie Pollock
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Just experienced the tie awarding win to USA issue. That's definitely a bad decision if it's deliberate.

Translation card from the promos cards - it isn't possible to play for event first (if it can't trigger). I believe the designer has said cards with events that can't trigger can still have the ineffectual event go first.
 
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Michael Valentine

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New bug I recently noticed. If U2 has been played, then you can event UN for +1 vp without having a USA card in hand. If it's less than 19 vps the award of the +1 will be reversed when you're unable to discard to UN, so no matter. But, if you're exactly at 19, then the game will just give you the victory without requiring a discard.
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Ben Kyo
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MichaelVal wrote:
New bug I recently noticed. If U2 has been played, then you can event UN for +1 vp without having a USA card in hand. If it's less than 19 vps the award of the +1 will be reversed when you're unable to discard to UN, so no matter. But, if you're exactly at 19, then the game will just give you the victory without requiring a discard.
Nice catch!
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Frederik
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Hopefully Playdek will fix these bugs in the (near) future?
 
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Eric Rodawig
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Benkyo wrote:
Playdek only announced one actual change to the rules, namely that VP draws don't exist in the Steam version and VP draws are counted as a win for the US.

I clicked on Wargames up 6 as US and the confirmation button said "USSR Victory". Or does that only apply to final scoring ties?
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Ben Kyo
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ChipsAhoya wrote:
Benkyo wrote:
Playdek only announced one actual change to the rules, namely that VP draws don't exist in the Steam version and VP draws are counted as a win for the US.

I clicked on Wargames up 6 as US and the confirmation button said "USSR Victory". Or does that only apply to final scoring ties?
My list here is out of date. EDIT: now updated.

They added another rule change:

The person playing Wargames for the event will lose if the event brings VP to zero.
 
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Ben Kyo
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Exoow wrote:
Hopefully Playdek will fix these bugs in the (near) future?
It seems they focused on Turn Zero for a long time to secure some more revenue, then for a while nearly all the bug fixes were to patch up Turn Zero.

Hopefully now that's all mostly out of the way they will finally get around to fixing all the bugs that have been present in the core game since release. To be fair, some of the bugs listed are really obscure, so it's not surprising they were only caught recently, but they've known about others for a very long time now.
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James
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Benkyo wrote:
ChipsAhoya wrote:
Benkyo wrote:
Playdek only announced one actual change to the rules, namely that VP draws don't exist in the Steam version and VP draws are counted as a win for the US.

I clicked on Wargames up 6 as US and the confirmation button said "USSR Victory". Or does that only apply to final scoring ties?
My list here is out of date. EDIT: now updated.

They added another rule change:

The person playing Wargames for the event will lose if the event brings VP to zero.

Goodness, the Playdek team are dead-set on not incorporating draws, even though they are a legitimate part of the game. Would it really mess up the Glicko rating system that much to include them? It's a poor excuse to unilaterally change the rules of the original game.
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Ziemowit Pazderski
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Eliminating draws doesn't bother me - that changes the game slightly, but doesn't break anything. In fact, it makes it easier to manage the elimination type tournaments.
What does bother me is that they are ignoring tens (literally) of genuine bugs reported to them, even though they have a list (maintained by Benkyo) on their own game forum. It's been there for months, and still no fixes. Admittedly, these bugs do not happen often, but still, how long can it take to fix them??
Perhaps Playdek should hire arry or Bruce Wigdor - to show the rest of the rules programming team, how it should be done.
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