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Subject: Looking for input: 2 player game rss

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VIN 666
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Hi all.

Just ordered this game.
Looks amazing.

Opinions on how well two player works vary dramatically however.
For those of you who have experience, please share your thoughts!

My conclusion is, that a two player game will pretty much be limited to the Romulans and the Feds.
But of course, those who have actually tried, please chime in!

The objective here is, to make the first 2 player game as smooth as it can be, so that my better half doesn't lose interest!
Once the expansions are available, I am all but certain that this will be a non-issue, but I don't want to wait that long

Thanks!!!
 
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Lou Lessing
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(I have not played a 2 player game.)

The main issue people seem to see with the two player game is that there's nothing to stop a runaway leader without trade, and the three factions in the base game all get started at different speeds, so there will probably be a runaway leader. The Federation is fast, the Klingons are slow, the Romulans are in the middle.

There isn't a particularly fair 1v1 matchup in the base game. I'm hopeful for Romulans vs Cardassians, but right now I think Federation vs Romulans is probably the best option. That matchup favors the Federation -- if you're worried about someone losing interest it's probably better to give them Federation instead of Romulans.

 
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VIN 666
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Thanks much!
That sounds like solid advice.
What about the board?
Should 2 players start closer? Woiuld it be better to try and build the map like one big unit, or two clusters with a "bridge"?
 
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Marc Bennett
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i have played 2 player with all race combinations

you really dont have to take the klingons out of the mix, no reason to limit the choice.

the biggest problems with a 2 player game is that there is less interaction and that interaction is what provides a balance in the game for a runaway leader.

the mechanics play fine, although trade agreements are rather pointless. 2 player is actually a great way to learn the game and get used to the mechanics and get better at playing. just remember the game will not be balanced well, there may be a runaway leader and the looser will probably know long before the game ends. other than that you dont need to change anything just enjoy! I know i did.
 
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VIN 666
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Thanks Marc, would you agree with the statement above that out of the 3, the Feds will have an edge?
Because in a bunch of the "mope" threads people seem to think differently
 
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Lou Lessing
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Marc's played 2 player and I haven't, so obviously listen to him, but here's my reasoning. A lot of people think the Federation is weak, probably because they can't fight, which means they drop off in the late-game.

In the early game, however, they're a force. Until the planets run out, they get culture from their Strange New Worlds trigger much faster than the Romulans get it from research or the Klingons get it from fighting. Over the course of a whole game it can even out a bit.

On some level this game is a culture race. They have to spend more culture on Hegemony than other species, but the Federation still usually starts that race with a lead.

Universal Translator lets them Hegemonize level 1 and 2 warp capable civilizations consistently in the early game, which gives them free resource nodes. Romulan Cloaking Device, on the other hand, is blank until you make first contact and start fighting, and Klingon Disruptors should be blank all the time unless something's gone badly wrong for the Klingons.

So this is another early-game edge, and their drawback of being unable to invade planets doesn't really come up until players have made first contact and started fighting. In a 3 player game, that means they're usually ahead on Ascendency going into the mid-game, but if the other players can stop them from winning quickly they're not very likely to win in the long term. In a 2 player game, it seems likely that they'll win quickly.
 
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Marc Bennett
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VIN666 wrote:
Thanks Marc, would you agree with the statement above that out of the 3, the Feds will have an edge?
Because in a bunch of the "mope" threads people seem to think differently


eh im not so sure feds have an edge in 2 player. all the races pretty much play the same in 2 player, they are still good at what they are good at. (i have never considered the feds weaker than other factions, its mearly a perception because they cant invade) i have found the balance of the factions to be very good overall (after 18ish plays).

i had a very good fed v klingon match i was the klingons and the feds got an early lead while i found phenomenon but my opponent dawdled and i collected the research i needed for tons of free ships and ended up steamrolling him.

in the 2 player game though the politics goes away. and this is a game about politics. with only 2 players the game is more mathy and more luck driven. the biggest factor in a 3 or more player game is political savvy, in 2 player its mostly the random events. even the feds are not immune to slow starts. you will get games where the event luck is fairly even and those are quite enjoyable. (even if they are still mathy)

as for playing area, we started 18" apart as suggested and just made a roughly equal space around the table for expansion.
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VIN 666
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Thanks guys.
I guess we'll just see what happens then
Just want to make sure the wife isn't pissed off right from the get go.
She has a tendency to form an opinion about a game rather quickly and since this sounds like a phenomenal game (from a big outfit no less) odds are, that there will be plenty of expansions, not just one or two.
 
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Lou Lessing
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VIN666 wrote:
odds are, that there will be plenty of expansions, not just one or two.


Yeah, they've already started talking a little bit about what's to come after Cardassians + Ferengi. There's a card that mentions Tholians, they've mentioned the Andorians and the Borg. It'll probably take a while before we see any of these, given that we still don't have a new release date for the Cardassians, but they're definitely planning on doing a bunch of expansions.
 
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VIN 666
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Would be sweet to have the xindi and dominion.
Although both are diverse groups that might be hard to integrate, then again, so is the federation.
 
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Locutus of Borg
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I've played several games 2 player, all Federation vs Romulans (that's just the prefered factions of myself and my mrs) and it actually works fine I've found, the Federation naturally tends to have the edge in and in terms of a cultural victory but if you play fairly agressively as Romualans you can counter this.

I've been experimenting with having the Klingons sat in the middle of the table available to trade with and with a nasty defensive fleet so theyre not just an easy conequest and stop either faction just steamrollering the other straight away, and it works pretty well.

Time will tell how well varying player numbers with other factions will work. As noted there's Cardassians and Ferengi out imminently and one of the cards refers to 'Tholians' so would imagine they're in the works (though they could also be a 'Ally' card as alluded to in the Ferengi previews?)

I'm actually really really hoping they WONT add the Borg as a player faction as that would just seem silly to me, I'm all in favour of some kind of special borg expansion to allow team games vs 1 borg faction or maybe adding the borg in some kind of 'AI' factor that just turn up and wreak havok (basically like they worked in BOTF)?
 
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VIN 666
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locutus9956 wrote:

I'm actually really really hoping they WONT add the Borg as a player faction


Ironic, given your screen name
 
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Jeffrey
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VIN666 wrote:
locutus9956 wrote:

I'm actually really really hoping they WONT add the Borg as a player faction


Ironic, given your screen name :)
Hope is irrelevant. Irony is irrelevant. The expansion will come out.
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VIN 666
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lol
 
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Robert Rodger
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locutus9956 wrote:
I've played several games 2 player, all Federation vs Romulans (that's just the prefered factions of myself and my mrs) and it actually works fine I've found, the Federation naturally tends to have the edge in and in terms of a cultural victory but if you play fairly agressively as Romualans you can counter this.


I've played 2-player a fair amount and this matches my experience. Most games have come down to the tie-breaker (and one actually was a complete tie). I rather like it as a 2-player game, actually.
 
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VIN 666
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Thanks for all the replies.
My concerns were unwarranted. Game plays awesome for two.
Only thing we haven't used thus far, were trade agreements.
Kind of seems pointless. Why would I give my enemy 1-3 ships to invade me?!
Makes no sense.
To be honest, I don't know if I would use them in a 3 player game either.
For the trade relations and alliances to make sense, I believe we are looking at more like 5-6 or more players.

Just my .02.

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Marc Bennett
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VIN666 wrote:
Thanks for all the replies.
My concerns were unwarranted. Game plays awesome for two.
Only thing we haven't used thus far, were trade agreements.
Kind of seems pointless. Why would I give my enemy 1-3 ships to invade me?!
Makes no sense.
To be honest, I don't know if I would use them in a 3 player game either.
For the trade relations and alliances to make sense, I believe we are looking at more like 5-6 or more players.

Just my .02.



for 2 players they are kinda pointless but with 3 they are very important, they encourage first contact (the first players to trade have an advantage) and its an important way for 2 players to cooperate against a leader.
 
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