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Subject: Can I be salty, or not? rss

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Cory King
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The game is Carcassone. We are playing with 5 players and 4 of the players are sharing a huge city (34 points), I have yet to join the city, and someone plays a tile to block me from the city and loudly boasts that "not everyone can be in the city". Clearly targeted me to lose out on the points.

I continued to play out the game knowing I'd never be able to come back from that point difference.

I was upset. Rightfully so?
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kingofmusic1 wrote:
The game is Carcassone. We are playing with 5 players and 4 of the players are sharing a huge city (34 points), I have yet to join the city, and someone plays a tile to block me from the city and loudly boasts that "not everyone can be in the city". Clearly targeted me to lose out on the points.

I continued to play out the game knowing I'd never be able to come back from that point difference.

I was upset. Rightfully so?
An opponent made a play that resulted in making sure his points stayed ahead of you.

Umm, that's called "playing games".
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Cory King
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Sure. But that decision ultimately only negatively affected 1 player and ruined that game experience for that player. Nothing was advantageous gained other than singling out a player.
 
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lotus dweller
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Yes, you were rightfully upset.

Now a lot of people are going to deny this, wave their hands in the air, run in circles, scream and shout, try to mislead you into their own twisted way of looking at the world.

But I have The Big Book On How The Pie Is To Be Cut, and on page 136 it states, "You can choose when to be upset. Being upset is a choice that you can take whenever you choose to take it."

So you were rightfully upset.

I will transcribe a section from page 137 which seems tangentially related to your situation.
"You must accept total responsibility for every instance in which you get upset. The alternative is that you become a puppet of your tormentor, a victim of circumstance."
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Liam
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It happens - definitely irritating for you but it's just part of the game.

It was very likely the optimum move for that player. Blocking an opponent from a big-score strengthens his/her position, while ensuring a castle can be completed. Big castles can be easily sabotaged.

I'd be more irritated if a player was deliberately picking sub-optimal rules moves to help opponents and ensure that the gameplay wouldn't upset anyone.

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col_w
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Forcing other players to share their points with you, and blocking them from doing the same, is a key strategy. Don't let the cutesy graphics deceive you; Carcassonne can be quite cutthroat.
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Guido Gloor
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kingofmusic1 wrote:
Sure. But that decision ultimately only negatively affected 1 player and ruined that game experience for that player. Nothing was advantageous gained other than singling out a player.

Carcassonne is no single player game. If you are out of the running for first place because of that move, while the player who did it is still in the running for first place, he eliminated competition and improved his own chances for victory. That's one of the prime things that Carcassonne is about: Victory.
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Justin Case
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monkeyhandz wrote:
I'd be more irritated if a player was deliberately picking sub-optimal rules moves to help opponents and ensure that the gameplay wouldn't upset them.


I'm pretty sure that's what you meant to say here, and I totally agree if so -- Carcassonne is not a co-op, and making the strongest moves, playing to win, brings out the best in any game.

Playing a game with someone who is "playing down" and deliberately not making what they think are the best moves is not fun, it's like being forced to sit at the kiddie table at a big family dinner.

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Ahh, getting blocked out of a city. Welcome to gaming.

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kingofmusic1 wrote:
I was upset. Rightfully so?

If by "upset" you mean angry and pouting, then no, not rightfully so (though it certainly is human nature, and many of us would have a least a twinge of the same emotions!). But if you mean "frustrated", then sure, that's reasonable, especially if that frustration distills into a determination to do better in future games and not fall for the same trick again.


kingofmusic1 wrote:
But that decision ultimately only negatively affected 1 player and ruined that game experience for that player. Nothing was advantageous gained other than singling out a player.

I think what is lacking here is a bit more experience and understanding of strategy.

The very first thing to note is that this was a 5-player game, which means that it will be chaotic by its very nature and that individual players will have less control of their own destinies.

Second thing, in a 5-player Carc game, I must recognize from the start that I will only rarely be able to snatch large scores that are mine and mine alone. Instead, the way to victory is keep tallying scoring chances that share the points with different players and attempt to rotate which players are shut out.

Third thing is to realize that a 34-point city had been growing for a fairly large number of player turns, and the time to do something about it was earlier in the game! If I see a large scoring feature developing, I have two choices -- I can either play tiles that get me in on the action, or I can play tiles that prevent the feature from being completed, thereby insuring that all of the players involved have wasted turns and meeples on a fruitless mission.

If that large feature is growing and I choose not to play tiles that affect it, then that's on me.... and if I never draw ANY tiles that would permit me to either play into the feature or block it?? Oh well, that's gaming!

meeple



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that Matt
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New users wander in to post random game complaints.

The Complaint Department is obviously too easy to find.
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tumorous wrote:
The Complaint Department is obviously too easy to find.

And easily misunderstood too -- this thread should surely be in General Gaming.
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You're in the wrong forum, friend.

To your question though, it sounds like your friend was making the right move and trying to win. I would never give anyone that many free points just so they are included.

You can still be upset about it though.
Just try not to take it too personally.
Unless their attitude about it felt super personal, which would be up to you to determine.
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Josh
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I rather like the idea that this forum is the proper place for whatever complaint anyone is expericing in their life.

My left heel is cracked, and it sorta hurts when I walk.
My Q4 estimated taxes are due in two weeks, and I'm not sure I'll have the money.
The espresso I'm drinking is slightly more bitter than I'd prefer.
I could go on all day.
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Bob Zurunkel
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JoshBot wrote:
I rather like the idea that this forum is the proper place for whatever complaint anyone is expericing in their life.

My left heel is cracked, and it sorta hurts when I walk.
My Q4 estimated taxes are due in two weeks, and I'm not sure I'll have the money.
The espresso I'm drinking is slightly more bitter than I'd prefer.
I could go on all day.


You want to complain? Look at these shoes, I've only had them three weeks and the heels are worn right through. If you complain, nothing ever happens, you might as well not bother. My back hurts, and I'm sick and tired of this office. And when are we going to get some nice weather?
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Cory King
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tumorous wrote:
New users wander in to post random game complaints.

The Complaint Department is obviously too easy to find.


And what a way to alienate a "new user". Go back to your deluxe, big box version of whatever heavy game you play.

Allow me to transition this complaint about people who feel ownership in a public domain and dismiss the involvement of "new users".
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Cory King
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haslo wrote:
kingofmusic1 wrote:
Sure. But that decision ultimately only negatively affected 1 player and ruined that game experience for that player. Nothing was advantageous gained other than singling out a player.

Carcassonne is no single player game. If you are out of the running for first place because of that move, while the player who did it is still in the running for first place, he eliminated competition and improved his own chances for victory. That's one of the prime things that Carcassonne is about: Victory.


It's a game. Got it. Just felt wronged when 4 players were sitting with 36 points and 1 player had 0.
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kingofmusic1 wrote:
tumorous wrote:
New users wander in to post random game complaints.

The Complaint Department is obviously too easy to find.


And what a way to alienate a "new user". Go back to your deluxe, big box version of whatever heavy game you play.

Allow me to transition this complaint about people who feel ownership in a public domain and dismiss the involvement of "new users".


Firstly, welcome to BGG, in general it is a nice friendly place, however, there are one or two strange places with some odd in-jokes, and this is one of them. The comment

tumorous wrote:

The Complaint Department is obviously too easy to find


is part of a running joke that the Complaint forum is hidden so that The Powers That Be don't have to do anything about the things that grind some people's gears.

Secondly, don't mind tumorous, the world would be a boring place if we were all the same!

Susie_Cat.
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that Matt
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kingofmusic1 wrote:
tumorous wrote:
New users wander in to post random game complaints.

The Complaint Department is obviously too easy to find.


And what a way to alienate a "new user". Go back to your deluxe, big box version of whatever heavy game you play.

Allow me to transition this complaint about people who feel ownership in a public domain and dismiss the involvement of "new users".

No worries, the Complaint Department is my deluxe big box game. meeple
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David Fair
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kingofmusic1 wrote:
It's a game. Got it. Just felt wronged when 4 players were sitting with 36 points and 1 player had 0.


It never feels good to be singled out like that, but it comes with the territory. The more you play games, the less things like this will bother you.
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Rich Keiser
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kingofmusic1 wrote:
haslo wrote:
kingofmusic1 wrote:
Sure. But that decision ultimately only negatively affected 1 player and ruined that game experience for that player. Nothing was advantageous gained other than singling out a player.

Carcassonne is no single player game. If you are out of the running for first place because of that move, while the player who did it is still in the running for first place, he eliminated competition and improved his own chances for victory. That's one of the prime things that Carcassonne is about: Victory.


It's a game. Got it. Just felt wronged when 4 players were sitting with 36 points and 1 player had 0.


I think that's just the sweet chords of natural selection highlighting the next creature to fall off the timeline.
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James Rountrey
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Pinook wrote:
Yes, you were rightfully upset.

Now a lot of people are going to deny this, wave their hands in the air, run in circles, scream and shout, try to mislead you into their own twisted way of looking at the world.

But I have The Big Book On How The Pie Is To Be Cut, and on page 136 it states, "You can choose when to be upset. Being upset is a choice that you can take whenever you choose to take it."

So you were rightfully upset.

I will transcribe a section from page 137 which seems tangentially related to your situation.
"You must accept total responsibility for every instance in which you get upset. The alternative is that you become a puppet of your tormentor, a victim of circumstance."


How funny is it that I searched for this book for my wife???... LMFAO!!!
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Guido Gloor
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Susie_Cat wrote:
Firstly, welcome to BGG, in general it is a nice friendly place, however, there are one or two strange places with some odd in-jokes, and this is one of them.

Seconded. Another place that's very odd (I don't dare tread in there) is the Off-Topic forum with its own denizens, and then there's the Wargames subforum. That's where the Grognards dwell. Finally, the RSP subforum (Religion, Sex, Politics) is where all the really controversial threads go.

All the other places should be mostly harmless
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kingofmusic1 wrote:
The game is Carcassone. We are playing with 5 players and 4 of the players are sharing a huge city (34 points), I have yet to join the city, and someone plays a tile to block me from the city and loudly boasts that "not everyone can be in the city". Clearly targeted me to lose out on the points.
Cities only score points for the player who has the most knights in the city. So what you're saying here is that there are four players who have been building up cities and they've merged them into a massive mega-city. And presumably they've tried to take the majority from each other, but finally realized that they have to share the city with each other.

What were you doing while all this was happening? Surely you saw the writing on the wall? If you didn't get into the city long before it became a four-way brawl for 34 points then you don't deserve to be in there at all.

It sounds less like they unfairly kept you out and more like you let it happen because you didn't play well.

But even if they weren't being "fair", that's what winning means. We take points for ourselves and deny them to the opponents. We're not there to make sure everyone gets points. We're actively trying to prevent that from happening.
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Susie_Cat
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One other thing that you might not have noticed being new, is that tumorous has tipped you 30 Geek Gold - enough for you to buy an avatar. Geek Gold is the virtual currency of the site and can be hard to come by when you are new, though some people are very generous with their donations to new users.

Susie_Cat.
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