Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
8 Posts

BoardGameGeek» Forums » Everything Else » Religion, Sex, and Politics

Subject: USA/NATO and Saudi Arabia rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Rob Scovell
New Zealand
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
I have been learning the cards in Twilight Struggle and learning the rules of Persian Incursion and the geopolitical implications fascinate me.

It seems that during the later stages of the Cold War, this happened:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US%E2%80%93Saudi_Arabia_AWACS_...

The USA/NATO and Saudi Arabia are still locked in an alliance embrace and 'we' are therefore heavily invested in the Sunni/Shiite war in the Middle East. This is fraught with the consequence of potential conflict with Russia in the region, because Russia has taken the Shiite side.

Should 'we' disentangle 'ourselves'? ('We' in quote marks because this is 'not in my name'.)

If 'we' should, could 'we'?

One of the reasons Hillary Clinton had no credibility for me was the fact that she claimed to espouse women's rights while at the same time being very cosy with the Saudis. The two are fundamentally incompatible without the geopolitical codependence.

Quote:
On October 20, 2010, the US State Department notified Congress of its intention to make the biggest arms sale in American history—an estimated $60.5 billion purchase by Saudi Arabia, trumping the former US-Saudi AWACS sale. The package represents a considerable improvement in the offensive capability of the Saudi armed forces. Israel did not raise objections to the sale, except to say that it was "not thrilled about it." At the time, a senior administration official stressed: "This is a big development, because it's part of a larger regional strategy and the maintenance of a strong US presence in the region. We're paying attention to the needs of our allies and what everyone in the region believes is a flexing of muscles by a more aggressive Iran. One way to deal with that is to make our allies and friends strong.
2 
 Thumb up
0.25
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robert Wesley
Nepal
Aberdeen
Washington
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mb
>sauron< "Puss*GRAB*MON!" quite 'apropos'
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike Stiles
United States
California
flag msg tools
badge
Shaman
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Iran's a better potential ally than Saudi.

Finangle it a bit and you end up with an Iranian-Israeli axis of support in the Middle East.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andy Leighton
England
Peterborough
Unspecified
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
robscovell wrote:
The USA/NATO and Saudi Arabia are still locked in an alliance embrace and 'we' are therefore heavily invested in the Sunni/Shiite war in the Middle East.


Yep it isn't just the US. Canada and the UK also have fairly substantial arms sales to Saudi. Australia, France and Germany also export arms to them. I think only Sweden and the Netherlands have stopped their arms deals (over Yemen).
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Dearlove
United Kingdom
Isleworth
Middx
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
windsagio wrote:
Iran's a better potential ally than Saudi.

Finangle it a bit and you end up with an Iranian-Israeli axis of support in the Middle East.

I think you would have to have a revolution in Iran. Have you not noticed that you are the Great Satan? A democratic anything is a good ally for the USA- anything else not so. And since the US and UK snuffed out Iran's nascent democracy in the 1950s the chance of a democratic Iran is pretty remote. The US, sadly, struggles to get over the notion that strong men are reliable allies. The damage done in the cold war to US interests in driving socialists into the hands of communists will take at least another generation to repair.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike Stiles
United States
California
flag msg tools
badge
Shaman
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
DavidDearlove wrote:
windsagio wrote:
Iran's a better potential ally than Saudi.

Finangle it a bit and you end up with an Iranian-Israeli axis of support in the Middle East.

I think you would have to have a revolution in Iran. Have you not noticed that you are the Great Satan? A democratic anything is a good ally for the USA- anything else not so. And since the US and UK snuffed out Iran's nascent democracy in the 1950s the chance of a democratic Iran is pretty remote. The US, sadly, struggles to get over the notion that strong men are reliable allies. The damage done in the cold war to US interests in driving socialists into the hands of communists will take at least another generation to repair.


Iran has a lot of potential as an ally, the wild deviation of their own revolution aside.

It's relatively wealthy, the people are actually prone to liberalism, and it is a natural ally against the sects that are stirring up most of the problems in the area at this time.

~~~

An engagement policy can work over time, especially given the natural shared enemy of extremist sunni violence.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
フィル
Australia
Ashfield
NSW
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Promise me there won't be any squares at my funeral
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
DavidDearlove wrote:
windsagio wrote:
Iran's a better potential ally than Saudi.

Finangle it a bit and you end up with an Iranian-Israeli axis of support in the Middle East.

I think you would have to have a revolution in Iran.

That worked out great last time!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Les Marshall
United States
Woodinville
Washington
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
robscovell wrote:


One of the reasons Hillary Clinton had no credibility for me was the fact that she claimed to espouse women's rights while at the same time being very cosy with the Saudis. The two are fundamentally incompatible without the geopolitical codependence.


Welcome to the world of compromise or "realpolitik". Despite the antipathy of the West toward communism, we still behaved as allies to Stalin including the massive lend lease program because we identified Hitlers Reich as the greater and more immediate threat.

Saudi Arabia (and many other places) engage in practices we find "deplorable" and yet they form a strategic partner to some of our interests in the Middle East. It's a shame that we have gotten into bed with some truly bad actors over time but, the world is populated with them and sometimes the best antidote for an enemy is.... their enemy not matter how distasteful their enemy may be.

Once the world frees itself from oil, it will no longer have such an interest in meddling in the region. Then the blood baths truly begin.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.